Nokia and the Mobira Cityman

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All right.

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Hello, everyone.

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Welcome back to season three of our friend
the computer.

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And I'm just jumping in to say that

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because we have our friends
over at Media Archeology Lab.

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There have been so sweet
and kind to supply us

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with some ringtones from their archived
Nokia collection,

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which will function as kind of transitions
throughout this episode.

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So thank you to Darya Medic
for recording and mixing

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these fun
little nostalgic nuggets of audio.

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Thank you.

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I'm so excited.

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Yeah, I'm so excited too.

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I'm Camila. I'm Ana.

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Yeah.

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This season we're going to look
at the world of cell phones or mobile.

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Phones, depending on where you are.

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I had to like because I'm from Australia
and I live in the States.

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I had to.

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Really change
the way that I talk about things.

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And cell phones and mobile phones was
I grew up saying mobile phones in here.

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Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah.

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I don't know what I say.

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I think I say cell phones.

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What do they say in the UK? Mobile phones.

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Mobile. My, my mobile.

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Yeah. I think cell phone.

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Cell phone.

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It's kind of a an American thing, right.

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Yeah. Yeah, I did know. Well,
I don't know.

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We'll see.

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I guess this is something that
we'll find out throughout this season.

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I, I did the research for this
first episode.

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And have been learning a lot about.

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GSM networks and 2G,

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3G, 4G, 5G, all of that,
all of that stuff.

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Will get into it.

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But I think we're going to be focusing
as is our ones on like eighties,

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nineties, early 2000s so far.

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In development around the world,
probably pre smartphone.

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Right. Yeah.

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But before we start we do.

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Have two fun news items

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that have occurred
while we've been on our little break.

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So firstly I Camila will be.

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Representing Our Friend the Computer
as a member of New Inc, which is an art

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design and technology incubator based here
in New York connected to the new museum.

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I'm I'm like thrilled
that we're doing this

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and we're going to be developing
over the next year, not.

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Only this podcast that you're
listening to now, but also Alpha

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and the computer
as something of a creative studio.

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To work.

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On additional multimedia
and audio projects

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and research around
alternative histories of technology.

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Hell yeah, we're expanding.

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Yeah.

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And to help support this expansion,
our second bit.

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Of news is that we've started a Patreon

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and we're going to be posting
additional content from our podcast

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recordings, fun bits from our research,
snippets of our lives,

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and you can even have a say
in deciding future episode topics.

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And we've named the Tiers.

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We had a whole meeting about this.
We named this year after.

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I guess Fritz
And that's for Fruit and Nut computers.

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Yeah.

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So we have a cod blackberry,

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apricot, tangerine and apple,
but every tier support.

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Will have access to the same content
and this podcast will stay free.

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And we're just very grateful
for however you choose to be here

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with us in this information
superhighway of a world.

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And we're really grateful.

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And thank you all
so much for your support.

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Over the last year
and a half of our friend, the computer,

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and we're really excited about where
we're going to go next.

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So come join us over on our Patreon,

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also over on our Instagram and Twitter
where where I've been posting memes.

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Computer memes.

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Yeah, the memes will not be paywalled.

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But yeah,
I mean, just to just to clarify as well,

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those tiers are basically like pay
what you can tiers.

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So like most said there, they will have
the same content, but it will just be

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you decide what, how much you want to,
how much you want to spend

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on this extra stuff.

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And some of it will also be video
content. Um.

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Our faces. Yeah.

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And other fun surprises.

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Okay.

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All right.

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We're through the news,
and this is a chunky episode, so.

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Let's get. Started. Yeah.

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Cell phones.

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This was actually a list.

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The suggestion specifically.

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Pre smartphone and cell phones in Japan.

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Which we are going to get to, but

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we're actually going
to start the season in Finland.

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I've never been to Finland.

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Have you been to Finland?

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No. I was meant to go to Finland
once when I was I was going to do

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a master's in Finland to do human computer
interaction, and then that fell through.

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So I got a London job and.

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Oh, yeah, All right.

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I know I've regretted the decision.

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But I think Finland, Finland is missing
out on you.

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I'm missing out.

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Well, maybe today can help you
with a bit of Finnish culture.

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So we're

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going to start in Finland,
specifically in a little town called Nokia

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on the banks of the duck in that river.

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Okay.

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Firstly,
did we realize that Nokia was a town?

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I think I presumed it was like an ancient
Greek word or something.

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Yeah. No,
I had absolutely no idea. I have.

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And especially the river,
Nokia and Vertu River

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is such a fun little quirk.

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Maybe I'll start using Nokia and Vertu

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River phone.

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Stuck in the phone.

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And secondly, pronunciation.

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I say. Nokia.

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I think Americans say no.

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Nokia. Yeah. No. Nokia.

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No Nokia. I didn't.

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I say Nokia,
but I'm going to say Nokia from now on.

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Oh, okay.

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Well, I'm I guess I'm saying it
from how Australians pronounce it,

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which is probably how
British people pronounce it.

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But I did find like a TV ad,

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I think it's Italian and they said Nokia,
so I'm just going to go with it.

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I apologize if that's hurting anyone's
is as I as I go through this.

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All right.

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So Nokia inverter Revo.

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Is important here. Because.

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Nokia is known as a town
with lots of waterways.

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And because of this,
they're also known for their hydro

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powered pulp mill and papermaking,
which started around like the 1860s.

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And then over the following century,
this expanded into a lot of different

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areas like rubber manufacturing,
electricity, stuff.

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Military things
through to computer technology.

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In the seventies.

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And this was all sort of under this one.

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Company of Nokia,

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and then later some of the subsidiaries
sort of split off and was sold.

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And I like that.

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A lot of them
seem to sort of rename from Nokia

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like Nokia tires to Nokia and tires.

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Nokia and Footwear.

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I guess because it's like from the town
rather than of the.

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Company.

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And Nokia, the company itself now

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doesn't maintain a basic connection
to the town and hasn't for a long time.

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But I think the town is still very like
into the fact that Nokia is from there.

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And it does seem like
there's a Nokia mansion that sometimes

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the company goes and does events
they hire for events or something.

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But it does seem like a very cute town.

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I was looking at pictures. Yeah,
it is not very pretty.

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It's so interesting to see
because I guess a lot of original

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technology manufacturers
would have had some kind of inherited

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industry from the industrial Revolution,
where

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manufacturers
would just like progress and evolve.

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But to actually see that manifest
in the name itself is really fun.

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Like Nokia is literally the name
of like an industrial town.

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Yeah, that's right. Yeah.

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So in

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1979, Nokia joined with a Scandinavian
TV manufacturer called Solera.

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Are they still a tire manufacturer?

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Around this time
they're starting to sell off some of their

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other like non technology subsidiaries.

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I'm not sure exactly when that happened,
but it is around this time.

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So as they're kind of selling some things
off, they're acquiring other things.

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So around this time they create this,

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a partnership with Celera, and together
they make

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what will later become the telephone,
a cell phone subsidiary of Nokia.

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And it's called Mobile era someplace.

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The places were calling it
mbira feels like a mbira to me.

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Looks like my bureau.

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So through this venture
they saw through mbira,

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they ended up developing the Nordic Mobile
telephone

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network, the NMT,
and it was launched across 1981 and 1982.

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And it was actually the world's
first international cellular network

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because it linked the Nordic countries
of Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland.

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And then later
so many countries in Eastern Europe.

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It was also the first social network
that allowed for international roaming.

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I don't know if that's
the same as when they say it's the world's

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first international cellular
network, but it sounds cool.

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So this network

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was based on analog one G technology.

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The preceding technology was zero
G, which I think sounds.

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Kind of badass.
It's like zero gravity, but it's just.

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Like zero generations,
like the nothing. Generation.

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Yeah, I don't think it was
even a generation, right?

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Is it just what we call it now?
Because we had to give it?

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Yeah, it was just,

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it was just some portable phones
connected to a centralized operator

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that became available after World
War Two. Hmm.

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I guess we're just, like, retroactively
grouping it together.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So these are AP up networks.

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Which were radio frequency based and empty

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phones were originally used
for truck communication, and they were

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sometimes integrated
into the truck design itself.

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So I think to talk about cell phones,
we really need to talk about car phones.

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Yeah, I see.

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I see.

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So so the tire company thing
makes sense here a little bit

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because the phone was like an addition
to the progression

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of technologies of the car.

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Yeah, I think also maybe military
and they were working

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with like battery stuff as well.

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So I think like electricity,
military, rubber all comes together.

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Yeah.

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In this like truck thing.

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Yeah.

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So the technology was kind of meant
to like, Yeah.

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Progress those industries. Mm hmm.

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But the way that it ended up
progressing was like.

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Towards.

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Mobile phones
for, for the everyday person.

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The first phone
that Nokia maybe launched on the MMT

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network in 1982 was a car phone.

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It was the mobile a senator.

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Okay, this also makes sense
because the difference between two G

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and one G as well is
that 2G was entirely digital

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and when G was analog, which meant
that it was connected through radio.

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So if cars already had radios, yeah,
this really works like you said earlier.

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Yeah,
I think like the whole MTA network was one

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G was analog and then later
it kind of gets taken over by digital.

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Yeah.

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2G networks.

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Yeah,
But yeah, you're right. You can see how it

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progresses

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quite clearly through these
through these phones.

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So this phone was called
the Mbira Senator, which I love that name.

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It's like.

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So. Fancy.

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And they also like to say the senator.

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Weighed ten

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o £22, which is quite heavy,

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but not so not very heavy for a senator.

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And it was somewhat portable

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like it was a box, it was a big box.

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And it was.

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You know, very heavy.

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But like technically,

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you could move it in and out of the car,
but it's like no one's doing that.

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And it had so it's like a big box
that you could carry and a had a handset

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and and a big antenna.

249
00:12:58,711 --> 00:13:00,579
And I think a lot of the weight

250
00:13:00,579 --> 00:13:03,149
was actually the battery component, which

251
00:13:03,149 --> 00:13:06,152
I guess got smaller and lighter

252
00:13:06,218 --> 00:13:10,689
over time as we moved into like
lithium ion battery world

253
00:13:10,756 --> 00:13:14,560
and conference are actually more popular
than cell phones in the eighties.

254
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:19,231
Largely I think because of this weight
factor that it made a lot more sense

255
00:13:19,231 --> 00:13:23,068
for us of portable phone to kind of.

256
00:13:23,135 --> 00:13:24,069
Live.

257
00:13:24,069 --> 00:13:29,742
Inside a car rather than something
that you would carry around with you.

258
00:13:29,809 --> 00:13:31,343
The transition from Carphone

259
00:13:31,343 --> 00:13:35,314
to cell phone, as far as I can
tell, was really about weight.

260
00:13:35,381 --> 00:13:38,117
And this transitional object for Nokia

261
00:13:38,117 --> 00:13:41,954
was the 1984 mobility Walkman.

262
00:13:42,054 --> 00:13:44,790
It was half the weight of the senator,

263
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:48,794
five kilograms
and was marketed as a transportable phone.

264
00:13:48,794 --> 00:13:53,199
So you could move it in
and out of your car a little more easily

265
00:13:53,265 --> 00:13:56,168
and it still had the same style.

266
00:13:56,168 --> 00:13:59,171
So it was like a phone headset
attached to a box with an antenna.

267
00:13:59,405 --> 00:14:04,210
And it also had the capacity
to store 184 contacts in its phone book.

268
00:14:04,276 --> 00:14:08,514
Wow. Maybe I'll get one oh, wait, no.

269
00:14:08,514 --> 00:14:13,652
There's one on eBay selling for $245.

270
00:14:13,719 --> 00:14:17,523
I think I'll just stick
to my other overpriced cell phone at.

271
00:14:17,523 --> 00:14:19,758
So cheaper than an iPhone.

272
00:14:19,758 --> 00:14:23,529
Yeah, that's true.

273
00:14:23,596 --> 00:14:25,364
So while the original

274
00:14:25,364 --> 00:14:29,802
car phones were used for trucking,
the with the senator and the talk.

275
00:14:29,802 --> 00:14:32,471
Man, we're now firmly entering this
like eighties.

276
00:14:32,471 --> 00:14:34,740
Business yuppie culture. Of yeah.

277
00:14:34,740 --> 00:14:38,410
This is also just so funny to me
because now you'd be fine

278
00:14:38,410 --> 00:14:42,481
or even possibly sent to jail for using,
you know, a phone and a car.

279
00:14:42,481 --> 00:14:48,254
But I guess that finding
was more introduced when cell phones

280
00:14:48,254 --> 00:14:53,893
got too portable and kind of abstracted
from the vehicle and the dashboard.

281
00:14:53,959 --> 00:14:57,329
Um, and actually,

282
00:14:57,396 --> 00:15:01,800
like, were these car phones in any way
built into the dashboard

283
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,271
or would they just be placed on the seat
next to you or something?

284
00:15:05,371 --> 00:15:08,073
I think the idea was that they were placed
on the seat next to you, but

285
00:15:08,073 --> 00:15:11,510
it seems like some had kind of like a dock

286
00:15:11,677 --> 00:15:15,180
or something that you can kind of put
some of it in, but I can't.

287
00:15:15,281 --> 00:15:17,516
It's sort of hard to tell with these.

288
00:15:17,516 --> 00:15:20,886
There's a lot of like mislabeling
between like the senator

289
00:15:20,886 --> 00:15:22,488
and the tournament and some other.

290
00:15:22,488 --> 00:15:25,090
Yeah. Ones. But yeah,

291
00:15:25,190 --> 00:15:28,727
well also maybe when like more rules
around.

292
00:15:28,827 --> 00:15:31,330
Seatbelts and Yeah.

293
00:15:31,330 --> 00:15:32,665
Yeah.

294
00:15:32,665 --> 00:15:35,034
The TV adverts.

295
00:15:35,034 --> 00:15:35,968
For the.

296
00:15:35,968 --> 00:15:40,606
Tournament are really indicative of this
like yuppie business thing

297
00:15:40,706 --> 00:15:41,640
for the tournament.

298
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,343
I watched one
where there's like two young businessmen

299
00:15:44,343 --> 00:15:48,280
and they're heading to work in their cars
and they get stuck in traffic

300
00:15:48,514 --> 00:15:52,351
and one guy is just like easily making
a chill phone call to the office with his.

301
00:15:52,551 --> 00:15:53,752
You're a talk man.

302
00:15:53,752 --> 00:15:56,322
And the other one has to do
like when they're stuck in traffic, jump.

303
00:15:56,322 --> 00:15:57,656
Out of the car.

304
00:15:57,656 --> 00:16:00,659
To try and get to a public pay phone.

305
00:16:00,693 --> 00:16:02,094
But then he only has cash.

306
00:16:02,094 --> 00:16:03,862
So he can't like make the call.

307
00:16:03,862 --> 00:16:06,832
And is the talk man phone guy.

308
00:16:06,832 --> 00:16:08,367
Drives past in the traffic.

309
00:16:08,367 --> 00:16:12,204
The pay phone guy sort of runs
up to his window and asks him for change.

310
00:16:12,204 --> 00:16:16,108
The guy just like laughs and drives off
and then the pay phone guy

311
00:16:16,108 --> 00:16:17,576
gets really, really frustrated. So I was.

312
00:16:17,576 --> 00:16:19,478
Like grabbing his hair
and pulling his tie and.

313
00:16:19,478 --> 00:16:20,713
Kicking at the air.

314
00:16:20,713 --> 00:16:23,449
And then it just cuts
to an image of the mbira toque

315
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:28,220
right over a beautiful sunset with like
the Golden Gate Bridge in the background.

316
00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:32,624
Wow. The simplicity of advertising back
then that so.

317
00:16:32,624 --> 00:16:34,493
Mediating it would have worked.

318
00:16:34,493 --> 00:16:37,930
I mean.

319
00:16:37,997 --> 00:16:39,832
So then in 1987,

320
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:42,868
we have the Mobius City Man nine.

321
00:16:42,868 --> 00:16:44,003
Hundred.

322
00:16:44,003 --> 00:16:46,638
It was code 900 because it used.

323
00:16:46,638 --> 00:16:48,741
The MMT 900 network.

324
00:16:48,741 --> 00:16:52,511
There was a 1985 test version

325
00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:56,582
on the MMT for 50 network
called The City Man for 50.

326
00:16:56,648 --> 00:16:59,251
That development
had some funding from the government,

327
00:16:59,251 --> 00:17:03,222
but also seems like
it was like a test trial run

328
00:17:03,222 --> 00:17:06,692
with only 100 fines and apparently
only 100 fines at the time were allowed

329
00:17:06,692 --> 00:17:10,362
to be used in Finland because the network
couldn't handle the traffic.

330
00:17:10,429 --> 00:17:15,334
So this 1987 Marlborough City Man
900 is the classic one.

331
00:17:15,401 --> 00:17:16,869
It was handheld.

332
00:17:16,869 --> 00:17:20,039
It didn't have the box component
of the senator or the tournament,

333
00:17:20,172 --> 00:17:23,776
and it weighed 800 grams,
which was very light at the time.

334
00:17:23,776 --> 00:17:26,979
And he was the lightest cell phone
available.

335
00:17:27,046 --> 00:17:29,882
It it cost in today's money
five and a half.

336
00:17:29,882 --> 00:17:32,618
K But it was very popular.

337
00:17:32,618 --> 00:17:35,287
I know, I know. Okay.

338
00:17:35,287 --> 00:17:41,060
I'm going back to my eBay. TUCKMAN

339
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,594
And the battery could.

340
00:17:42,594 --> 00:17:46,765
Make about five calls before needing
to be recharged each day, which, to.

341
00:17:46,765 --> 00:17:50,102
Be honest,
isn't that much different than my iPhone

342
00:17:50,102 --> 00:17:54,273
X, which loses battery very quickly.

343
00:17:54,339 --> 00:17:56,475
And the city. Man was.

344
00:17:56,475 --> 00:17:59,011
Really for young business people and.

345
00:17:59,011 --> 00:18:00,779
They glamourous lifestyles.

346
00:18:00,779 --> 00:18:03,482
It was a status symbol.
And I think it also.

347
00:18:03,482 --> 00:18:05,350
Allowed for the growth of hustle.

348
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:08,320
Culture,
I guess, or just cell phones in general

349
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,722
because these business people
could now be.

350
00:18:10,722 --> 00:18:14,359
Working from the ski slopes,
from the nightclub.

351
00:18:14,460 --> 00:18:15,694
Yeah.

352
00:18:15,694 --> 00:18:18,063
Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that makes sense.

353
00:18:18,063 --> 00:18:22,401
And also because if it was so expensive
and such a status symbol,

354
00:18:22,501 --> 00:18:26,939
I mean, five and a half thousand dollars,
that's insane.

355
00:18:27,106 --> 00:18:29,241
Yeah, but, but think of, think.

356
00:18:29,241 --> 00:18:31,743
Of all the money,
all the deals you could be making that.

357
00:18:31,743 --> 00:18:34,713
You don't make at the moment
when you're out of the office.

358
00:18:34,713 --> 00:18:37,049
Yeah, I guess like.

359
00:18:37,116 --> 00:18:40,619
It pays for it. So

360
00:18:40,686 --> 00:18:41,120
I don't think.

361
00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:46,158
I don't think you'd be able to justify it
now, even like with the amount of venture

362
00:18:46,258 --> 00:18:48,927
I think you would,
you'd have more possibility for,

363
00:18:48,927 --> 00:18:54,133
for business venture through phone calls,
more back in the day than you do now.

364
00:18:54,199 --> 00:18:58,370
I mean, phones can get up to like
$2,000 now.

365
00:18:58,370 --> 00:18:59,905
I guess that's true. Yeah.

366
00:18:59,905 --> 00:19:03,275
And then also people didn't
necessarily have laptops.

367
00:19:03,342 --> 00:19:06,178
Yeah. Back then. So. Yeah.

368
00:19:06,178 --> 00:19:09,648
But I agree with the status symbol as well
because

369
00:19:09,748 --> 00:19:11,783
I mean if Yeah,
if they were that expensive

370
00:19:11,783 --> 00:19:15,287
and if it was such a status symbol,
it's interesting because I see

371
00:19:15,287 --> 00:19:19,091
that that technology would be kind of

372
00:19:19,158 --> 00:19:21,026
being tested to its limits

373
00:19:21,026 --> 00:19:25,164
and like testing the boundaries of where
and how far this technology can go.

374
00:19:25,164 --> 00:19:28,500
And then I guess taking it
to the ski slope or the nightclub

375
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:33,872
where it's literally impossible to call
anyone is is a

376
00:19:33,939 --> 00:19:37,910
yeah, if you if that is a status symbol,
you really want to test out

377
00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:40,045
how much you can do
or if it's too expensive,

378
00:19:40,045 --> 00:19:42,581
you really want to see
how much it's worth.

379
00:19:42,581 --> 00:19:43,749
I think there's also an element

380
00:19:43,749 --> 00:19:47,586
that we've seen in in other episodes,
particularly when we talk about

381
00:19:47,653 --> 00:19:51,490
like personal computers
moving from business into the home,

382
00:19:51,590 --> 00:19:57,396
where
when we started with that and with phones,

383
00:19:57,462 --> 00:20:00,365
there wasn't really
precedent for how they would be used.

384
00:20:00,365 --> 00:20:04,136
And so there was a couple of years
where particularly like advertising

385
00:20:04,136 --> 00:20:08,840
was trying to work out how
they would be integrated into our lives

386
00:20:09,007 --> 00:20:10,609
and the ways that they would be used.

387
00:20:10,609 --> 00:20:15,714
And I think what we're seeing here
is it's less about

388
00:20:15,781 --> 00:20:17,282
entertainment

389
00:20:17,282 --> 00:20:20,018
and it's more about like,
Oh, how can I be?

390
00:20:20,018 --> 00:20:22,254
It's an extension of the office
at this point.

391
00:20:22,254 --> 00:20:25,757
But when we look at our phones
now, even though,

392
00:20:25,857 --> 00:20:28,227
you know, through to the BlackBerry,
it was very much

393
00:20:28,227 --> 00:20:31,930
advertised as as like
you can send emails and do work.

394
00:20:31,930 --> 00:20:36,201
But now I think a lot of people think
about phones as more like personal

395
00:20:36,201 --> 00:20:42,074
and entertainment
based than business, purely a business

396
00:20:42,174 --> 00:20:43,242
object.

397
00:20:43,242 --> 00:20:45,811
And I think that this is like
the start of that where they're

398
00:20:45,811 --> 00:20:49,881
trying to work out, you know,
So we see the guys in their

399
00:20:49,982 --> 00:20:52,117
in their cars and he can like.

400
00:20:52,117 --> 00:20:54,286
Call the office and he can be accessed.

401
00:20:54,286 --> 00:20:59,091
And that is the thing that is providing
sort of the status and and stuff

402
00:20:59,091 --> 00:21:01,293
and the fact that you can be
on the ski slopes

403
00:21:01,293 --> 00:21:05,297
but also be doing business
and have the office contact you

404
00:21:05,397 --> 00:21:08,700
for us
now is kind of like a strange thing.

405
00:21:08,700 --> 00:21:14,106
I think most people would rather
not be contacted by their office skiing.

406
00:21:14,172 --> 00:21:17,309
Yeah, I think we talked about this
in the in the Adam

407
00:21:17,309 --> 00:21:20,312
in the Calico Adam episode, actually.

408
00:21:20,412 --> 00:21:23,949
But yeah, it goes to show how
when you take efficiency

409
00:21:23,949 --> 00:21:29,921
so far, you really find yourself
in very bizarre situations.

410
00:21:29,988 --> 00:21:32,557
And I think
this is like a perfect example of that.

411
00:21:32,557 --> 00:21:37,763
Yeah.

412
00:21:37,863 --> 00:21:42,067
Mm hmm.

413
00:21:42,134 --> 00:21:44,036
So it says all over the Internet

414
00:21:44,036 --> 00:21:48,440
that the city man features
prominently in the film Lethal Weapon.

415
00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:51,777
But I actually looked
and they think that it's another phone

416
00:21:51,777 --> 00:21:56,114
by my bureau,
and it's a phone called the Action Man No.

417
00:21:56,148 --> 00:21:57,182
Well, yes.

418
00:21:57,182 --> 00:22:00,152
Which is a really short lived
Nokia Riviera portable car.

419
00:22:00,152 --> 00:22:05,123
Phone that came out between the talk man
and the city man.

420
00:22:05,190 --> 00:22:05,691
And I think it's.

421
00:22:05,691 --> 00:22:08,994
Interesting to kind of look at this.

422
00:22:09,061 --> 00:22:13,198
Series of naming that we have the action
man, the talk man, the city man.

423
00:22:13,265 --> 00:22:17,369
And we can see how this style of naming
was sort of around in the eighties,

424
00:22:17,369 --> 00:22:21,940
particularly with something else
like the Sony Walkman, Walkman.

425
00:22:22,140 --> 00:22:25,577
So I would say Walkman, Walkman,

426
00:22:25,677 --> 00:22:26,912
Walkman, but

427
00:22:26,912 --> 00:22:30,916
I would say action, man, talk
man, city and city man action man.

428
00:22:30,916 --> 00:22:33,418
Talking of that,
I think that's because like.

429
00:22:33,418 --> 00:22:36,421
The name Walkman

430
00:22:36,588 --> 00:22:39,691
continued on longer than the, the,
the Nokia phones did.

431
00:22:39,691 --> 00:22:44,563
But I didn't realize
it was kind of a naming relic of this era.

432
00:22:44,663 --> 00:22:46,598
And it reminds me of
when Apple transitioned

433
00:22:46,598 --> 00:22:49,601
their naming
like when Steve Jobs came back

434
00:22:49,601 --> 00:22:53,405
to Apple and they switched their naming
from like Apple products to

435
00:22:53,405 --> 00:22:56,908
I products with the iMac in 98,

436
00:22:56,975 --> 00:22:59,444
which I think
technically stood for Internet.

437
00:22:59,444 --> 00:23:01,546
But then with the popularity of the iPod.

438
00:23:01,546 --> 00:23:02,514
And then we started.

439
00:23:02,514 --> 00:23:04,883
Seeing that naming style
seeping into the rest of.

440
00:23:04,883 --> 00:23:09,688
Society, like random companies
and storefronts, just putting an AI

441
00:23:09,688 --> 00:23:13,658
in front of their names to seem modern
and cool and this, this and stuff.

442
00:23:13,658 --> 00:23:14,192
That had.

443
00:23:14,192 --> 00:23:17,162
I see some stores
sometimes that have an eye

444
00:23:17,162 --> 00:23:22,367
just in front of their name
for like not connected to the internet

445
00:23:22,467 --> 00:23:23,969
and it's sort of quite dated now.

446
00:23:23,969 --> 00:23:26,571
It's really of a specific era,
which I think is what.

447
00:23:26,571 --> 00:23:30,242
The the Walkman action
man thing is also doing.

448
00:23:30,308 --> 00:23:31,710
Yeah, totally.

449
00:23:31,710 --> 00:23:36,782
And in every instance of these naming
trends though, you can see this like

450
00:23:36,848 --> 00:23:41,553
personification of the technology
which runs through regardless of the trend

451
00:23:41,553 --> 00:23:47,592
like the AI and iPhones
and the man in Tuckman talk man

452
00:23:47,659 --> 00:23:52,164
you can clearly see the progression
as well of like gender inclusion

453
00:23:52,164 --> 00:23:56,001
over time, where technologies were
first used for a specific gender,

454
00:23:56,101 --> 00:23:59,704
you know, like men doing business
and then branched out to different genders

455
00:23:59,704 --> 00:24:04,743
as the technology is like subverted
or the gender trends around

456
00:24:04,743 --> 00:24:08,079
the technology have changed
or even our transpose.

457
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:13,285
So yeah, the naming conventions for
these things is really interesting.

458
00:24:13,285 --> 00:24:16,888
The like evolution of of that because

459
00:24:17,055 --> 00:24:21,359
so it was like the Tuckman the city man
and then the action man.

460
00:24:21,426 --> 00:24:23,995
The action
well, it was the. South Korean and.

461
00:24:24,062 --> 00:24:25,931
Now it's the Turkmen.

462
00:24:25,931 --> 00:24:29,301
The action man
And then there's the city man.

463
00:24:29,401 --> 00:24:30,936
Yeah,

464
00:24:30,936 --> 00:24:33,805
I wonder what what that says.

465
00:24:33,805 --> 00:24:34,573
But yeah, it's.

466
00:24:34,573 --> 00:24:35,874
So interesting that like.

467
00:24:35,874 --> 00:24:38,610
The individuals ization of. Yeah.

468
00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:42,647
That I think that we originally
when we had you know

469
00:24:42,647 --> 00:24:47,953
computers were used by multiple people,
they weren't necessarily for one person.

470
00:24:48,019 --> 00:24:50,021
And then this shift

471
00:24:50,021 --> 00:24:52,858
is really about a personal thing.

472
00:24:52,858 --> 00:24:53,992
It's something you carry with you.

473
00:24:53,992 --> 00:24:59,898
It's like only yours, whether
it's in your car or it's in your pocket,

474
00:24:59,998 --> 00:25:03,435
it's like your personal line

475
00:25:03,535 --> 00:25:05,604
versus,

476
00:25:05,604 --> 00:25:08,907
yeah, like a computer in an office

477
00:25:08,907 --> 00:25:12,210
that multiple people use our computer
in like a computer room, you know?

478
00:25:12,210 --> 00:25:13,712
Yeah, I like that

479
00:25:13,712 --> 00:25:20,218
The action man came after the Tuckman
because it's like almost saying, you know,

480
00:25:20,285 --> 00:25:21,753
all, all action.

481
00:25:21,753 --> 00:25:25,390
No, no talk or let's.

482
00:25:25,457 --> 00:25:27,359
And then

483
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,262
I think it's probably because it is like.

484
00:25:30,262 --> 00:25:33,899
Yeah, I know, but it's just you can draw
some quite funny things out of it.

485
00:25:33,899 --> 00:25:37,936
And then this city man came after the city
just like is,

486
00:25:37,936 --> 00:25:41,172
you know, all talking to all action
like it

487
00:25:41,172 --> 00:25:44,376
embodies both of those

488
00:25:44,442 --> 00:25:45,076
anyway.

489
00:25:45,076 --> 00:25:50,215
Me able to walk and collect.

490
00:25:50,282 --> 00:25:50,882
Yeah.

491
00:25:50,882 --> 00:25:54,052
So outside of this
like Lethal Weapon thing, whether or not

492
00:25:54,185 --> 00:25:56,221
that was real or not.

493
00:25:56,221 --> 00:26:00,992
There was a particular incident which
cemented the city man in popular culture.

494
00:26:00,992 --> 00:26:02,327
So there was this sort of events

495
00:26:02,327 --> 00:26:06,831
in Helsinki where different Finnish
manufacturers would display their goods.

496
00:26:06,932 --> 00:26:11,436
And Nokia had been doing this
PR thing at this event over the years

497
00:26:11,703 --> 00:26:13,171
where they would sort of hand

498
00:26:13,171 --> 00:26:16,174
one of their phones
to visiting politicians at these events,

499
00:26:16,174 --> 00:26:21,179
which were also their kind of press
conferences for the country.

500
00:26:21,246 --> 00:26:23,615
But in October 1987, the

501
00:26:23,615 --> 00:26:28,119
politician visiting the fair was Mikhail
Gorbachev, the head of the Soviet Union.

502
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,021
And who would be their last leader.

503
00:26:30,021 --> 00:26:33,158
And he was one of the most famous
politicians

504
00:26:33,158 --> 00:26:36,161
or people in the world at the time. Yeah.

505
00:26:36,261 --> 00:26:36,695
Yeah.

506
00:26:36,695 --> 00:26:41,666
And also,
as we all know, a total tech freak.

507
00:26:41,733 --> 00:26:45,370
It was actually Khrushchev
that oversaw the development of Ogi.

508
00:26:45,370 --> 00:26:48,373
Yes, but while Ogi is

509
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,443
the was happening in Russia
in the seventies,

510
00:26:51,443 --> 00:26:56,247
which was meant to be
this nationwide information network,

511
00:26:56,314 --> 00:27:00,819
but then Gorbachev was the came after that

512
00:27:00,885 --> 00:27:03,421
and he was a lot more you know,

513
00:27:03,421 --> 00:27:06,992
he was like one of the most liberal
Soviet leaders ever.

514
00:27:06,992 --> 00:27:08,393
I mean, obviously.

515
00:27:08,393 --> 00:27:12,964
But yeah, it's interesting because he was
he was also very liberal

516
00:27:12,964 --> 00:27:18,603
in terms of the in terms of technology
production and network

517
00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:21,673
and internationalization. So.

518
00:27:21,773 --> 00:27:25,777
Yeah, well, Nokia worked with Gorbachev's
people to set up

519
00:27:25,777 --> 00:27:29,614
a call between their foreign atmosphere
and the Soviet Union.

520
00:27:29,614 --> 00:27:34,052
It was the deputy chief of communications,
Vladimir Glinka,

521
00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,455
and the call itself seemed very easy.

522
00:27:37,455 --> 00:27:39,491
This footage of it, it's like,
Oh, he just picks up the phone.

523
00:27:39,491 --> 00:27:43,261
But in reality they had to set up this
like separate base station

524
00:27:43,261 --> 00:27:44,162
in the grounds of the.

525
00:27:44,162 --> 00:27:45,830
Hotel where this fair was happening

526
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:46,865
because they needed to ensure

527
00:27:46,865 --> 00:27:50,035
that the coal would work
because it's they've got the world,

528
00:27:50,035 --> 00:27:53,038
the world's press looking at them
what it needs.

529
00:27:53,238 --> 00:27:54,539
And it worked wonderfully.

530
00:27:54,539 --> 00:27:59,144
And the image and footage from this
publicity stunt were widely circulated,

531
00:27:59,144 --> 00:28:03,481
so much so that the city
man later in Finland had the nickname

532
00:28:03,481 --> 00:28:07,419
the Gorbachev phone, which is like
their nickname for Gorbachev.

533
00:28:07,419 --> 00:28:08,887
So they named this.

534
00:28:08,887 --> 00:28:11,423
Thing so good, the Gorbachev.

535
00:28:11,423 --> 00:28:12,957
I love that. Okay.

536
00:28:12,957 --> 00:28:15,960
And the conversation
that he had was very short.

537
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:20,398
He was just handed the phone and Glinka
was already connected and talking

538
00:28:20,398 --> 00:28:24,569
on the other side and the things
that Gorbachev said was were, Hello,

539
00:28:24,602 --> 00:28:28,306
who am I talking to and where are you?

540
00:28:28,406 --> 00:28:29,474
Greetings.

541
00:28:29,474 --> 00:28:30,608
Then he said, I love this.

542
00:28:30,608 --> 00:28:32,077
Is this a real call?

543
00:28:32,077 --> 00:28:33,812
Yeah, that's really funny.

544
00:28:33,812 --> 00:28:39,084
And then at the end he goes,
All right, see you in Moscow. And

545
00:28:39,150 --> 00:28:41,920
he's like, joking about this.

546
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,823
But the last comments had

547
00:28:44,823 --> 00:28:47,258
massive ramifications for Glinka.

548
00:28:47,258 --> 00:28:49,461
Apparently he was about to retire,

549
00:28:49,461 --> 00:28:53,565
but because Gorbachev had told him
that he would meet him in Moscow.

550
00:28:53,665 --> 00:28:55,800
And when you watch,
this is like clear, he's sort of.

551
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,768
Making a joke.

552
00:28:56,768 --> 00:28:59,304
It's like tongue in cheek
and everyone around him laughs.

553
00:28:59,304 --> 00:29:00,071
But that comment.

554
00:29:00,071 --> 00:29:02,006
Meant that Glinka wasn't allowed to retire

555
00:29:02,006 --> 00:29:05,910
just in case
Gorbachev did come to Moscow to meet him.

556
00:29:05,977 --> 00:29:08,179
So he ended up having
to stay in government for an extra

557
00:29:08,179 --> 00:29:10,448
six months beyond the point
he had planned to retire.

558
00:29:10,448 --> 00:29:12,717
And Gorbachev never came to see him.

559
00:29:12,717 --> 00:29:16,554
No, see, and we're already seeing

560
00:29:16,554 --> 00:29:20,258
the ramifications of miscommunication
via technology.

561
00:29:20,258 --> 00:29:26,131
Have it happened from the very start?

562
00:29:26,197 --> 00:29:28,299
So from 19.

563
00:29:28,299 --> 00:29:32,537
77 through 1988, the CEO of

564
00:29:32,537 --> 00:29:36,207
Nokia was a man named Kerry Kramer,

565
00:29:36,274 --> 00:29:39,477
and he had worked his way up
through the paper industry.

566
00:29:39,477 --> 00:29:45,016
And when he joined Nokia, he really had
an aggressive plan to quickly and broadly

567
00:29:45,016 --> 00:29:49,187
grow Nokia into an international player
in multiple industries.

568
00:29:49,287 --> 00:29:51,956
They became very diversified.

569
00:29:51,956 --> 00:29:56,060
It was him that led the shift away
from paper and rubber

570
00:29:56,161 --> 00:30:00,665
products into electronics and technology,
mobile phones, televisions.

571
00:30:00,732 --> 00:30:04,969
And he did this through company
acquisitions and partnership ups.

572
00:30:05,069 --> 00:30:08,506
Cramer's
leadership here was also in service of the

573
00:30:08,506 --> 00:30:11,509
lead up to the formation of the EU
in the nineties,

574
00:30:11,509 --> 00:30:15,313
which Finland was not originally part of,
like the first stage of it.

575
00:30:15,413 --> 00:30:19,083
And so partnerships
meant that Nokia and Finland itself

576
00:30:19,083 --> 00:30:23,822
could still be part of these trades
because Nokia was Finland's

577
00:30:23,822 --> 00:30:28,092
largest company, their fortunes were
incredibly interconnected.

578
00:30:28,159 --> 00:30:32,931
Well, yeah, Nokia must have had immense
political power then.

579
00:30:33,031 --> 00:30:34,465
Yeah,

580
00:30:34,532 --> 00:30:35,200
And around this

581
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,103
time was also kind of heading
into the fall of the Soviet Union,

582
00:30:39,103 --> 00:30:43,541
which was one of Finland's
biggest customers in terms of exports.

583
00:30:43,541 --> 00:30:46,845
And this was diminishing massively
and very quickly.

584
00:30:46,945 --> 00:30:50,815
Wow. Yeah,
I was going to ask about that, actually,

585
00:30:50,882 --> 00:30:54,719
because surely they were also
very friendly with the Soviets.

586
00:30:54,719 --> 00:30:58,022
Example number one is the Gerba.

587
00:30:58,089 --> 00:31:02,093
So I guess, yeah,
Nokia was then a very kind of shrewd,

588
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,830
double dealing business venture
where like, yeah, it was,

589
00:31:05,930 --> 00:31:11,369
it was reaping the benefits off
of its clients in the Soviet Union in

590
00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:15,240
but then using that to kind of dismantle
it as well

591
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,711
and like be part of the EU
and be part of the kind of Soviet fall.

592
00:31:19,777 --> 00:31:21,913
I think that

593
00:31:21,913 --> 00:31:26,584
you can really see how powerful
Nokia was at the time, particularly

594
00:31:26,584 --> 00:31:30,488
in the fact that they had strong business
dealings with the Soviet Union

595
00:31:30,488 --> 00:31:33,791
but also the United States
at the same time.

596
00:31:33,892 --> 00:31:36,995
So they were like,
but it's probably because of this way

597
00:31:36,995 --> 00:31:40,198
that they had these acquisitions
and partnerships.

598
00:31:40,198 --> 00:31:41,699
And it was sort of

599
00:31:41,699 --> 00:31:45,536
and a lot of the business of Nokia
isn't under the Nokia name,

600
00:31:45,770 --> 00:31:49,707
So they were a lot larger
than they maybe appeared

601
00:31:49,774 --> 00:31:52,143
because they
would when they had these partnerships

602
00:31:52,143 --> 00:31:56,314
and these acquisitions and subsidiaries,
they would often use

603
00:31:56,381 --> 00:32:00,952
those company names or different
company names rather than Nokia.

604
00:32:01,052 --> 00:32:01,819
Yeah.

605
00:32:01,819 --> 00:32:04,889
So I guess like that phone call
that Gorbachev had

606
00:32:04,889 --> 00:32:08,192
was really quite a

607
00:32:08,259 --> 00:32:11,062
representative moment of like

608
00:32:11,062 --> 00:32:15,533
the liberalization of Russia and

609
00:32:15,633 --> 00:32:19,871
and maybe also like an overshadowing
of the of the fall of the Soviet Union

610
00:32:19,871 --> 00:32:23,808
because he wasn't just making a phone call
with his with his partner.

611
00:32:23,841 --> 00:32:28,246
He was making he was opening up
the kind of network gateways

612
00:32:28,346 --> 00:32:30,848
to the rest of the world and Yeah.

613
00:32:30,848 --> 00:32:33,584
And providing. The Yeah.

614
00:32:33,584 --> 00:32:35,086
Yes of the moment.

615
00:32:35,086 --> 00:32:37,088
Well.

616
00:32:37,088 --> 00:32:38,556
So also around this time

617
00:32:38,556 --> 00:32:43,594
for Nokia, there's price competition
in the consumer electronics market,

618
00:32:43,661 --> 00:32:47,265
which is where Cramer had
put a lot of like the Nokia eggs.

619
00:32:47,365 --> 00:32:50,835
You know things were getting cheaper
and other companies

620
00:32:50,835 --> 00:32:54,906
were coming in as competition
and this really did all lead

621
00:32:54,906 --> 00:33:00,411
to dips in profits for Nokia, which some
were attributing to Cramer's leadership.

622
00:33:00,411 --> 00:33:03,448
And aggressive expansion plans are later

623
00:33:03,514 --> 00:33:06,017
the next CEO is

624
00:33:06,017 --> 00:33:07,952
he would say that that this actually

625
00:33:07,952 --> 00:33:10,955
was the correct move
and that he had believed in it.

626
00:33:11,022 --> 00:33:15,727
And the reason that he was the next CEO

627
00:33:15,727 --> 00:33:21,032
was that in December 1988, Karamo was 55

628
00:33:21,099 --> 00:33:26,404
and he died by suicide
and Nokia tried to cover it up.

629
00:33:26,471 --> 00:33:29,507
They said that he had died
of a sudden illness.

630
00:33:29,507 --> 00:33:33,511
I guess they were concerned
that this would affect their investors

631
00:33:33,511 --> 00:33:37,382
and their stock prices,
where profits are already dipping.

632
00:33:37,448 --> 00:33:42,186
But then word got out in the press
and Nokia didn't deny it.

633
00:33:42,186 --> 00:33:43,554
And then they issued a statement

634
00:33:43,554 --> 00:33:47,492
saying that his death was unconnected
with Nokia's business.

635
00:33:47,558 --> 00:33:53,498
Though some outlets did report that
a cause of his death was from work stress.

636
00:33:53,564 --> 00:33:57,735
And it was also said that he suffered from
bipolar disorder or something similar.

637
00:33:57,902 --> 00:34:01,606
But I don't think this was ever confirmed.

638
00:34:01,706 --> 00:34:04,609
So it was a really kind of

639
00:34:04,609 --> 00:34:06,711
difficult time

640
00:34:06,711 --> 00:34:09,881
for Nokia and for the and for Finland.

641
00:34:09,981 --> 00:34:12,383
And Karma didn't plan on success.

642
00:34:12,383 --> 00:34:13,217
So there was a lot of there's

643
00:34:13,217 --> 00:34:18,222
a period of jostling for leadership
and then it settled down.

644
00:34:18,322 --> 00:34:20,425
But because of compromise acquisitions

645
00:34:20,425 --> 00:34:25,830
and work on the cell phone
portion of Nokia by this of the later

646
00:34:26,064 --> 00:34:28,900
eighties, Nokia had become the world's

647
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:32,837
largest producer of mobile phones
and held 13% of the global market.

648
00:34:32,937 --> 00:34:37,975
And from like 1998 through to early 2000,
like 24 ish,

649
00:34:38,042 --> 00:34:40,845
Nokia was the largest
global seller of mobile phones.

650
00:34:40,845 --> 00:34:45,149
I think it had a market
share of like 40% or something. Wow.

651
00:34:45,216 --> 00:34:49,987
It's just so wild to me
that a shocking death like that,

652
00:34:49,987 --> 00:34:53,524
even when it occurs
and like the highest ranks of power

653
00:34:53,524 --> 00:34:56,527
when it happens to literally the CEO
and chairman

654
00:34:56,761 --> 00:34:59,630
doesn't shake much of commerce at all.

655
00:34:59,630 --> 00:35:02,667
And it's just,
you know, business as usual, in fact,

656
00:35:02,667 --> 00:35:05,236
successful business as usual.

657
00:35:05,236 --> 00:35:05,670
Yeah.

658
00:35:05,670 --> 00:35:08,906
I mean, I think it shook it for a little
period of time, but it didn't stop.

659
00:35:08,906 --> 00:35:09,740
Yeah.

660
00:35:09,740 --> 00:35:12,910
It's awful that that happened to Karamo.

661
00:35:12,910 --> 00:35:15,713
And yeah.

662
00:35:15,780 --> 00:35:17,115
So after this sort

663
00:35:17,115 --> 00:35:20,751
of heyday period
that there is a fall of Nokia

664
00:35:20,985 --> 00:35:24,789
and some of this seems
to be based on middle management.

665
00:35:24,789 --> 00:35:25,590
Issues.

666
00:35:25,590 --> 00:35:27,091
Particularly

667
00:35:27,091 --> 00:35:29,494
apparently
they start having meetings in boardrooms

668
00:35:29,494 --> 00:35:33,264
and instead opted to have meetings
and so dinners with vodka and these songs

669
00:35:33,264 --> 00:35:35,600
just on the roof of their office
buildings, they have this like.

670
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,635
Incredible view. It sounds amazing.

671
00:35:37,635 --> 00:35:41,606
But it also sounds so Finnish
because they have

672
00:35:41,672 --> 00:35:43,741
like Finland has saunas and every single.

673
00:35:43,741 --> 00:35:46,744
Building. Yeah, So

674
00:35:46,744 --> 00:35:49,680
but there was also a changing market
that was.

675
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,350
Bringing in a lot of competition.

676
00:35:52,350 --> 00:35:55,353
They were launching a lot of products,
like so many products.

677
00:35:55,353 --> 00:35:56,654
In 2004, they launched.

678
00:35:56,654 --> 00:35:59,490
40 products.

679
00:35:59,490 --> 00:36:02,793
That US partnerships
weren't particularly strong.

680
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:06,631
They put a lot of energy into mobile
gaming, Mobile entertainment,

681
00:36:06,631 --> 00:36:10,268
which like not much came of
in terms of profit.

682
00:36:10,334 --> 00:36:15,473
And also they kind of bet on a mobile
operating system called Symbian,

683
00:36:15,573 --> 00:36:22,446
which didn't really take off like iOS,
Android did, particularly in the US.

684
00:36:22,513 --> 00:36:23,548
So in

685
00:36:23,548 --> 00:36:28,719
2011 there's talk of Nokia
partnering up with Microsoft,

686
00:36:28,786 --> 00:36:32,690
the new CEO of Nokia,
who had previously been

687
00:36:32,690 --> 00:36:36,227
a microsoft executive,
and there was a little like unproven.

688
00:36:36,227 --> 00:36:39,897
Conspiracy theory around that,
that it's not it's not a thing.

689
00:36:39,964 --> 00:36:42,600
But he gave a speech to Nokia.

690
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,502
Employees that's a little famous.

691
00:36:44,502 --> 00:36:47,305
It's called the Burning Platform memo,

692
00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:50,741
because a transcript was leaked
from a Nokia internal site.

693
00:36:50,841 --> 00:36:54,979
The way The Guardian describes it is
he likens the company's situation

694
00:36:54,979 --> 00:36:57,481
to that of a man
standing on an oil platform

695
00:36:57,481 --> 00:37:01,018
in the North Sea and facing a raging fire
on multiple fronts.

696
00:37:01,252 --> 00:37:04,589
You has no choice but
to jump into freezing water to survive.

697
00:37:04,589 --> 00:37:08,159
I love the drama. It's so dramatic.

698
00:37:08,159 --> 00:37:08,492
Oh, we're going.

699
00:37:08,492 --> 00:37:11,162
To read more of it
on Alec Patron by this content.

700
00:37:11,162 --> 00:37:13,965
But it includes great quotes like the.

701
00:37:13,965 --> 00:37:15,833
Battle of Devices has become a.

702
00:37:15,833 --> 00:37:19,537
War of ecosystems, and we.

703
00:37:19,537 --> 00:37:24,342
Have multiple points of scorching heat
that are fueling a blazing fire around us

704
00:37:24,342 --> 00:37:28,212
that can produce the device much faster
than the time that it takes us

705
00:37:28,212 --> 00:37:31,082
to publish a PowerPoint presentation.

706
00:37:31,148 --> 00:37:32,283
True.

707
00:37:32,283 --> 00:37:34,952
It's very dramatic.

708
00:37:34,952 --> 00:37:45,730
And know.

709
00:37:45,796 --> 00:37:50,301
So they do end up
kind of partnering up with Microsoft.

710
00:37:50,401 --> 00:37:53,771
And after a few years of this,

711
00:37:53,838 --> 00:37:58,309
in 2014, Nokia's handset
cell phone business

712
00:37:58,542 --> 00:38:03,314
was bought by Microsoft for €7 billion

713
00:38:03,414 --> 00:38:06,417
and became Microsoft mobile.

714
00:38:06,484 --> 00:38:09,253
I smell evil. Yeah, yeah.

715
00:38:09,253 --> 00:38:10,688
You're smelling correctly.

716
00:38:10,688 --> 00:38:13,691
Some drama. Is about. To occur.

717
00:38:13,858 --> 00:38:16,861
So this could have been incredible
for Microsoft.

718
00:38:16,861 --> 00:38:17,828
The reason they were interested

719
00:38:17,828 --> 00:38:21,832
was that they didn't really have a strong
mobile division at this point.

720
00:38:21,832 --> 00:38:23,901
They had been mainly focusing on PCs

721
00:38:23,901 --> 00:38:26,904
and were getting pushed out of the market
very quickly.

722
00:38:26,904 --> 00:38:30,274
But the issue that they had
was that they wanted people

723
00:38:30,274 --> 00:38:33,077
to pay for their operating system,
which we see with their.

724
00:38:33,077 --> 00:38:35,780
Computers. Too, like with Windows. Right.

725
00:38:35,780 --> 00:38:38,683
Do you have to pay for Windows?

726
00:38:38,749 --> 00:38:39,617
And so people had to

727
00:38:39,617 --> 00:38:43,321
buy the phone
and then buy the software as well.

728
00:38:43,521 --> 00:38:48,526
Yeah,
this is like a classic anti Steve Jobs.

729
00:38:48,626 --> 00:38:49,860
And it meant it meant that.

730
00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:53,097
Although they had all of this
hardware from Nokia,

731
00:38:53,297 --> 00:38:56,701
they couldn't compete with Android
and iOS in market share and without

732
00:38:56,701 --> 00:38:59,837
marketshare, developers weren't
so interested in creating apps and that.

733
00:38:59,837 --> 00:39:02,273
Led to less market share. Yeah.

734
00:39:02,273 --> 00:39:06,243
And basically a year later,
two years later,

735
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:08,979
they wrote off the $7.6

736
00:39:08,979 --> 00:39:13,150
billion Nokia acquisition and laid off
like 8000 employees.

737
00:39:13,150 --> 00:39:16,587
They effectively just they bought
Nokia and two years later they closed it.

738
00:39:16,654 --> 00:39:19,256
And I've seen numbers for like the layoffs

739
00:39:19,256 --> 00:39:22,727
up to the 20,000 like over the years.

740
00:39:22,827 --> 00:39:26,831
And when they bought
the company had 25,000 employees

741
00:39:26,931 --> 00:39:28,366
and then and then.

742
00:39:28,366 --> 00:39:31,802
So basically they just pretty much got rid
of almost everyone.

743
00:39:32,036 --> 00:39:32,770
Yeah.

744
00:39:32,770 --> 00:39:35,773
I mean, not all of those employees
were in Finland, but a lot of them were.

745
00:39:35,973 --> 00:39:39,777
And Nokia was kind of they sort of
sold it off to other companies

746
00:39:39,777 --> 00:39:42,380
and it still kind of exists
in small markets,

747
00:39:42,380 --> 00:39:44,582
but not,
you know, in the global zeitgeist at all.

748
00:39:44,582 --> 00:39:46,484
It's not a player.

749
00:39:46,584 --> 00:39:46,851
There's an

750
00:39:46,851 --> 00:39:50,755
article in VentureBeat
which says this was a corporate coupling

751
00:39:50,755 --> 00:39:52,790
that many observers correctly predicted

752
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:56,527
would fail rather than being done
to achieve some shared vision.

753
00:39:56,527 --> 00:39:59,730
At the time, both Nokia
and Microsoft were backed into a corner

754
00:39:59,730 --> 00:40:03,100
and saw the other
as their only potential savior.

755
00:40:03,167 --> 00:40:06,370
Yeah, I mean,
I think I guess Microsoft always

756
00:40:06,370 --> 00:40:09,774
had the upper hand, though,
like they always do.

757
00:40:09,774 --> 00:40:12,276
They're the bigger company,

758
00:40:12,276 --> 00:40:14,178
you know, they're like, in this case,

759
00:40:14,178 --> 00:40:18,783
they acted like this sort of McKinsey
group of tech where you just try

760
00:40:18,783 --> 00:40:23,854
and cut out as many people as possible
to make larger profits

761
00:40:23,921 --> 00:40:25,956
or to maintain the company.

762
00:40:25,956 --> 00:40:28,592
I guess in this case, I don't
I don't know.

763
00:40:28,592 --> 00:40:29,660
I don't really know that much.

764
00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:34,899
I mean, it's
a very it's a very monetarily expensive

765
00:40:34,965 --> 00:40:36,200
buy. Yeah.

766
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:40,438
But it's also it's also like

767
00:40:40,504 --> 00:40:45,009
it just fact it affected Finland a lot
And the people

768
00:40:45,075 --> 00:40:49,180
Nokia was incredibly connected
to Finland and Finnish identity.

769
00:40:49,246 --> 00:40:53,250
It was their largest company
and made a lot of products, like I said,

770
00:40:53,250 --> 00:40:57,621
you know, under the Nokia name,
but also names of subsidiary companies.

771
00:40:57,721 --> 00:41:01,225
And it was a really sad day for Finland
when Microsoft bought Nokia's mobile

772
00:41:01,225 --> 00:41:05,429
phone division and an even sad one
when they closed it for the people.

773
00:41:05,429 --> 00:41:08,432
But also like it affected the economy
quite a bit.

774
00:41:08,566 --> 00:41:11,569
Though Microsoft did establish a program
to help people

775
00:41:11,602 --> 00:41:15,172
get new jobs and fund some entrepreneurial
activities in Finland like they.

776
00:41:15,172 --> 00:41:17,641
Knew that they'd stuffed up.

777
00:41:17,641 --> 00:41:22,713
Yeah, it's just it's really scary
because the number of layoffs

778
00:41:22,713 --> 00:41:27,151
is outstanding and Finland isn't
even that big of a country.

779
00:41:27,151 --> 00:41:29,019
So I don't know.

780
00:41:29,019 --> 00:41:34,725
It's it's interesting that it had served
as this very convenient political vehicle

781
00:41:34,725 --> 00:41:40,564
at a certain time, then created this,
you know, mass accumulation

782
00:41:40,631 --> 00:41:41,799
of business with

783
00:41:41,799 --> 00:41:44,802
with this post-Soviet capitalist boom.

784
00:41:44,835 --> 00:41:50,107
And once all of that had passed,
the company sort of became redundant.

785
00:41:50,174 --> 00:41:55,713
So, yeah, it's just it's just wild
because like you, you couldn't really

786
00:41:55,713 --> 00:42:01,886
imagine them getting any bigger
because they were just so big.

787
00:42:01,952 --> 00:42:04,788
But even with all of that, I don't know.

788
00:42:04,788 --> 00:42:06,323
Like once you thought this fish couldn't

789
00:42:06,323 --> 00:42:09,927
get any bigger,
a bigger fish comes along and eats it.

790
00:42:09,994 --> 00:42:14,498
And I suppose that the, you know, the age
old story of capitalism is that.

791
00:42:14,565 --> 00:42:17,968
Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of

792
00:42:18,035 --> 00:42:22,006
it's interesting how,
you know, Microsoft was getting bigger

793
00:42:22,106 --> 00:42:26,810
and Nokia when they bought them, still had
a really large share of the market.

794
00:42:26,911 --> 00:42:31,982
And so it it's sort of it is that thing
of, you know, they were kind of trying

795
00:42:31,982 --> 00:42:36,921
to help each other when Nokia was kind
of faltering a little bit at the time.

796
00:42:36,921 --> 00:42:41,258
And we're on the burning platform.

797
00:42:41,325 --> 00:42:43,861
And, you know, they they had

798
00:42:43,861 --> 00:42:48,632
they didn't have a strong ties to the U.S.

799
00:42:48,699 --> 00:42:51,535
and that's kind of where the market
was developing.

800
00:42:51,535 --> 00:42:55,072
And for Microsoft, yeah, they weren't

801
00:42:55,172 --> 00:42:59,076
as strong in in the cell phone market.

802
00:42:59,143 --> 00:43:03,647
But it's interesting, it's like
in terms of tech, the Nokia thing is like

803
00:43:03,647 --> 00:43:08,118
people don't I think people
now don't people who remember Nokia

804
00:43:08,218 --> 00:43:11,255
that were around then,
but they're not known now.

805
00:43:11,288 --> 00:43:15,392
I don't imagine that younger generations
know really

806
00:43:15,392 --> 00:43:20,764
what Nokia is or who they are
and it's almost like Apple,

807
00:43:20,831 --> 00:43:23,200
like being like folding
in a couple of years

808
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,203
and then in like ten years,
nobody really remembering.

809
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:30,307
Yeah, that is that is what it feels like
to me because I grew up in Czech Republic

810
00:43:30,307 --> 00:43:34,244
and Nokia was just the standard phone
everyone would have.

811
00:43:34,244 --> 00:43:35,212
It would be everywhere.

812
00:43:35,212 --> 00:43:38,949
You'd go to the Nokia store
to like top up your credit

813
00:43:39,016 --> 00:43:40,050
they were they were the

814
00:43:40,050 --> 00:43:43,854
telecom you can communication
network in Czech Republic.

815
00:43:43,854 --> 00:43:45,422
So yeah.

816
00:43:45,422 --> 00:43:49,026
And now that they're not really
and obviously I had left

817
00:43:49,093 --> 00:43:52,463
over 15 years ago but

818
00:43:52,563 --> 00:43:54,365
to go back and see that

819
00:43:54,365 --> 00:43:58,702
there's no more
Nokia is really strange to me.

820
00:43:58,802 --> 00:44:00,604
Yeah. Wild.

821
00:44:00,604 --> 00:44:01,805
Yeah.

822
00:44:01,805 --> 00:44:04,808
So from an article
about the purchase quote

823
00:44:04,942 --> 00:44:08,612
Nokia, however, is such an integral part
of Finnish society that it keeps on

824
00:44:08,612 --> 00:44:11,582
bringing out new sides to people,
even those close to me.

825
00:44:11,582 --> 00:44:12,249
It's a subject

826
00:44:12,249 --> 00:44:17,187
everyone has an opinion on, possibly more
than our national politics.

827
00:44:17,254 --> 00:44:20,724
And then with the layoffs,
the Finnish finance minister said,

828
00:44:20,791 --> 00:44:23,560
it can be said that we have been betrayed.

829
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,563
This is,
of course, Nokia and Microsoft's trade.

830
00:44:26,630 --> 00:44:27,765
But when the deal was made,

831
00:44:27,765 --> 00:44:31,535
Microsoft announced its commitment
to Finland and Finnish expertise.

832
00:44:31,535 --> 00:44:36,306
Now it seems that
all parts of this have not been met.

833
00:44:36,373 --> 00:44:38,909
So it's like a sad ending kind of.

834
00:44:38,909 --> 00:44:41,512
I mean, Nokia, I think, like they
they still exist, though,

835
00:44:41,512 --> 00:44:46,050
in some of those articles
it was talking about how well maybe

836
00:44:46,050 --> 00:44:49,687
with like the mobile phone
section of Nokia being sold off

837
00:44:49,687 --> 00:44:52,189
Nokia as a company
can kind of grow in other areas.

838
00:44:52,189 --> 00:44:53,223
And I think it did,

839
00:44:53,223 --> 00:44:55,592
but it didn't maintain what it was
and couldn't

840
00:44:55,592 --> 00:44:57,728
become what it maybe could have become.

841
00:44:57,728 --> 00:44:59,463
Yeah.

842
00:44:59,463 --> 00:45:01,398
Yeah. Yeah.

843
00:45:01,398 --> 00:45:01,832
I have.

844
00:45:01,832 --> 00:45:03,934
No, it's just a little like sad ending.

845
00:45:03,934 --> 00:45:06,937
Yeah, it happens a lot.

846
00:45:07,037 --> 00:45:08,739
We're just editing.

847
00:45:08,739 --> 00:45:11,975
Yeah, I have.

848
00:45:12,042 --> 00:45:13,110
Thank you so much.

849
00:45:13,110 --> 00:45:14,078
That was.

850
00:45:14,078 --> 00:45:24,888
That was awesome.

851
00:45:24,988 --> 00:45:26,023
We've covered,

852
00:45:26,023 --> 00:45:29,760
you know, the beginnings
of, of, of network standards.

853
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:35,866
We went from 0 to 1, G to two G,
and we've also covered the kind of

854
00:45:35,966 --> 00:45:37,968
the takeover of capitalism for

855
00:45:37,968 --> 00:45:42,506
for these networks
and the fall of the Soviet Union.

856
00:45:42,573 --> 00:45:45,342
So, yeah, we've done a lot.

857
00:45:45,342 --> 00:45:49,780
And I guess in the next episode we'll be
looking at some very different strands.

858
00:45:49,780 --> 00:45:54,318
But like, yeah, I think the Nokia story
kind covers quite a lot of ground.

859
00:45:54,418 --> 00:45:56,120
Yeah, I think there's a TV.

860
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,756
Show about it I think came out recently.

861
00:45:58,756 --> 00:46:00,457
I haven't watched it, but I did.

862
00:46:00,457 --> 00:46:01,892
I did see some like reviews.

863
00:46:01,892 --> 00:46:03,827
I saw the Finnish TV show.

864
00:46:03,827 --> 00:46:05,829
So I'm going to I might watch that.

865
00:46:05,829 --> 00:46:09,066
Oh, so we're going to.

866
00:46:09,099 --> 00:46:12,369
Do a little bit of extra
recording for Patreon.

867
00:46:12,436 --> 00:46:14,838
I want to maybe look at that.

868
00:46:14,838 --> 00:46:18,542
Burning platform speech
a bit more and also talk about the snake.

869
00:46:18,542 --> 00:46:20,911
Game. Do you remember that?

870
00:46:20,911 --> 00:46:22,045
Of course it was.

871
00:46:22,045 --> 00:46:24,348
That was a naked game
and that's what they were

872
00:46:24,348 --> 00:46:28,152
when I was saying they were interested
in mobile entertainment.

873
00:46:28,252 --> 00:46:30,420
Snake game. Yeah, the snake game.

874
00:46:30,420 --> 00:46:36,059
But the other stuff that they
tried didn't really stick.

875
00:46:36,126 --> 00:46:37,094
So join.

876
00:46:37,094 --> 00:46:39,563
Us over on Patreon.

877
00:46:39,563 --> 00:46:41,131
Where it'll be live.

878
00:46:41,131 --> 00:46:45,702
By the time this podcast goes out or so

879
00:46:45,769 --> 00:46:50,941
our friend, the computer on Instagram
been doing some meme computer

880
00:46:50,941 --> 00:46:54,478
meme roundups each week
and some little thing

881
00:46:54,645 --> 00:46:57,648
I've been doing some little
like green screen.

882
00:46:57,781 --> 00:47:00,184
Talks. From.

883
00:47:00,184 --> 00:47:00,818
Us on Twitter.

884
00:47:00,818 --> 00:47:02,719
And also we want to thank our pals over.

885
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,689
At the Media
Archeology Lab at the University of.

886
00:47:05,689 --> 00:47:07,024
Colorado.

887
00:47:07,024 --> 00:47:09,593
Who are our sister.

888
00:47:09,593 --> 00:47:11,395
Or sister project of theirs.

889
00:47:11,395 --> 00:47:13,297
And they give us some.

890
00:47:13,297 --> 00:47:15,632
Support and.

891
00:47:15,632 --> 00:47:18,168
We're very grateful
to be connected with them.

892
00:47:18,168 --> 00:47:19,102
They're awesome.

893
00:47:19,102 --> 00:47:20,003
Oh, yeah. Wait.

894
00:47:20,003 --> 00:47:23,740
And will this a way
of curating their next.

895
00:47:23,841 --> 00:47:24,241
Oh, yeah.

896
00:47:24,241 --> 00:47:26,243
EphemerMAL

897
00:47:26,243 --> 00:47:28,579
Ephemer-mal.

898
00:47:28,579 --> 00:47:32,282
So if you head over to our Instagram.

899
00:47:32,282 --> 00:47:34,084
Or even our website on.

900
00:47:34,084 --> 00:47:34,618
The website.

901
00:47:34,618 --> 00:47:39,156
Yeah, we have an open call for artwork
and writing submissions

902
00:47:39,156 --> 00:47:42,759
and I think that closes October 1st.

903
00:47:42,993 --> 00:47:44,828
Yeah,

904
00:47:44,895 --> 00:47:45,262
Yeah.

905
00:47:45,262 --> 00:47:50,300
And subscribe
to our podcast on all platforms

906
00:47:50,300 --> 00:47:54,638
and like our things
and stay tuned for the next one.

907
00:47:54,705 --> 00:47:56,373
Hey, season three.

908
00:47:56,373 --> 00:47:59,509
Well thanks everyone.

909
00:47:59,509 --> 00:48:00,310
Bye bye.
Available tomorrow!