Poly-1

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Hello. Good morning.

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Good afternoon. Good evening, everyone.

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This is our friend, the computer.

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I'm here.

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This is Ana. I'm here with Camila, as I.

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How are you doing, Camila?

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I'm tired because we started really early.

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Yeah, we did. It
was because we had a scheduling mistake.

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That was my fault.

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So I can't complain about being tired now.

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It's now
you've got things going on in the day.

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No, that's not your fault.

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Yeah, it's a good thing, though,

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because like I was saying earlier,
I really like the sound of morning voices.

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I wish I could have my morning voice.

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I mean, I don't like my morning
fights. I'm

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listening back to it, but, like,
I find them quite soothing.

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Okay, well,
I'll try to be soothing and not croaky.

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Not croaky. How you doing?

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I'm good.

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I thought

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you would be interested
because I went to see

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a cricket game last weekend,
and it was Australia versus England.

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It was the Ashes.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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And it was the last game
and it was very thrilling.

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We won.

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England Well, Australia,

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they are the better.

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They are the that team.

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But it was fun.

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Yeah, it was like I was,
we were there for like 5 hours.

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I get kind of long
realize that it's, it's long.

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Yeah, it's very long.

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It's kind of.

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Which is really nice. Yeah.

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Because it's so chill.

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I really enjoy going to the cricket.

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I like the cricket.

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I like having it on in the back grounds.

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Oh, really? Yeah.

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It's something that I guess I grew up
having on in like the summer months

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and it would just be on and like,
like the Olympics, you know, in

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the Olympics is on
and it's just on the telly all the time.

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And then I've been to a few matches

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with my mom
and I've been with some friends

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and yeah, it's just it's just really chill

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and relaxing and you sit
and you just bring food and drinks and.

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Yeah, yeah.

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And in the sun you just watch like this
massive green field

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and so strip in the middle.

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Yeah.

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I find it really hard to track the ball
like when it's.

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I can't really see it very well.

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So I had like yo what's the reaction.

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It's not used to. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Both us have was really,
there was a little bit of like a spectator

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like beef between England

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and Australia because it's the Barmy Army.

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Is that cricket.

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What, the Barmy Army.

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It's that will you.

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So it's the, it's the fans of England.

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Oh I was sitting with people that were.

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Yeah.

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But it was so fun. I go again. Definitely.

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Oh let's go sometime. Yeah.

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Computer excursion to the cricket.

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Yes, that would be fun.

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Bring our little minotaur with us.

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Oh, how. How about you?

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How are you?

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Or do you just want to go straight?

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I might just go straight into it

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because to be honest,
I don't know if I've been doing much.

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Well,
this is our last episode about education.

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Oh, computers season.

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Yeah.

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And I've.

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I've really enjoyed this season.
Yeah, I think it's good.

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We've met a lot of friends.

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Fun friends.

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Mhm. So for our last episode of the season

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we're going to go on a trip
to New Zealand.

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Speaking of cricket,
I guess they picked it.

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Yeah,
and New Zealand is my favorite accent,

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so this is really fun for me
because I got to watch lots of eighties

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New Zealand stuff, New Zealand stuff.

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It's my New Zealand accent.

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Good, good.

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Thank you.

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Pretty good for an Aussie

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fashion chops.

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That's the classic one to say so.

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So we're looking at another home
grown microcomputer

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that's funded by a government program, but

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this one was crushed
by corporate interference.

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So we'll be discussing

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what that looked like
and then we'll be a little sad about it.

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Like I said, vote for her.

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Yeah, I'll be so.

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Our friend today is called the Poly one.

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Cool. So name?

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Yeah, my name.

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It's not a micro B, but it's fine.

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So we're in the late
seventies, early eighties, New Zealand,

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two guys, Neil Scott and Paul Bryant,
electrical engineering teachers

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at Wellington Polytechnic,
which is like a vocational college.

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I looked it up.

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It's since been subsumed
into like various other institutions,

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but that's what it was at the time. So.

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Neil Scott, Dr.

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Neil Scott, it's a lot of information
about him, but less about Paul Bryant.

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Sorry to Paul Bryant,

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but he had

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been working on projects
at Wellington Polytechnic

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to make computers more accessible
for people with disabilities.

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So he was interested in developing

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natural language interfaces
and also seems like different methods

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of navigation and interaction,
such as gesture controls.

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So the first computer that he built
was for a school student

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who and the references are kind of old
on this.

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It sounds like they had
maybe a non-verbal learning disorder.

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So he built a computer

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which could be controlled
through the knees and used Morse code.

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I have no other information.

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Please don't ask follow up questions.

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Okay.

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Through the needs. Yeah, I guess Maybe.

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I guess. Maybe. Like the buttons.

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Mm hmm.

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Yeah. Yes. At the knees. I don't.

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I don't know.

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But apparently it was useful
and worked. And.

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And he built a few things like this
ergonomic.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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And he also was working on projects
that more generally looked at

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how technology could be used to make math

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and science
more appealing to schoolchildren.

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And yeah, I really couldn't
find much about Paul Bryant,

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but there was more until Scott
because he ended up after this project

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moving to the United States and he became
the director of the Archimedes Project.

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So there's like a lot more information
about him out there.

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And truly
I couldn't find stuff about Paul Bryant.

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So Paul Ryan, if you are out there,

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tweet us or email us

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and we'll we'll add some information
of how you got tonight.

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I'm sorry, of so from all of this

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sort of background and experience,
Scott and Bryant saw a gap in the market

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this gap that many people
around this time around

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the world was starting to see.

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And for them, it was
perhaps like less of a gap in the market

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and more of an opening up of potential
learning and accessibility opportunities

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to make a computer for education.

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So and this computer, I think

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I saw this mentioned one time,
it was the first

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or one of the first of these government
funded educational computers.

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It was released 18 months before the BBC

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Micro Account computer
from the Computer Literacy Project.

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Okay, cool.

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Because most of the stuff
we've seen has been inspired by.

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Yeah, yeah. The BBC Micro.

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Yeah, that's interesting.

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I, I like how we're just doing this

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very not chronologically

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like we're just going based on by into
Yeah deeper and deeper

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into the edge of computers thing

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and just finding out more about the kind
of predecessors of the models.

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But yeah, it's also, I guess
another thing that I wanted to talk of

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I guess like reflect on it
being the last episode is that it's always

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so weird to see
how a lot of these projects were just

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undeniably well-intentioned
and had experts leading it that were more

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just interested academically
and in practice, in accessibility

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and like helping others and kind of,
you know, squashing the disparities.

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And then these motives

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soon got swept up by,
you know, venture capitalists or whatever.

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And obviously,

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I'm not saying

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that's like necessarily a bad thing,
but yeah, it just must have been

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a crazy time for academics
who specialized in these things

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because it must have been like inevitable
for them to get approached for business,

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like it just must have been
such a wild time for

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for academics
that were pursuing the subject

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of computer literacy, which I'm
sure that there was quite a lot of them.

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Yeah.

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I wonder if they felt like this
is something that they wanted, you know,

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they're doing something yet doing this
because they see that,

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oh, this is
maybe like it could turn into a thing

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or they're just developing it
and then they're like, Oh, wow, okay,

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I now have the opportunity
to actually put this into practice

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and yeah,
send it around the round the country.

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Yeah.

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So it's called the poly one

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because it was originally developed
and designed at Wellington Poly.

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Technik Oh, I just,
I love how it sounds like a Star Wars,

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but character

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like a it was for like maybe a BBA.

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C3PO Mm hmm.

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Polyone

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So in 1980 they pitched it
to the Department of Education.

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The government liked the idea, and so they
began a company called Poly Poly Corp.

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Poly Corp.

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Yeah. Cool.

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Love, love these Disney names.

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I just it's so funny to see that
like these names in the eighties

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and nineties when companies
were still called something Corp.

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which now just sounds blatantly evil,

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but I'm sure they I'm sure they were nice.

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I'm sure they were nice people, yeah.

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POLYCARP Which was a partnership between
the Development Finance Corporation,

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which was a state funded venture
capital enterprise

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and a New Zealand
software company called Progeny Computers

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per Progeny Progeny Progeny Computers Ltd.

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So it was part of it.

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I mean that sounds even more evil,
but it was, I guess

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the government was and we saw this
in Canada as well, had this

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yeah, this like venture capital investment

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part of what they were doing

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and so that joined up with her,

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Jeannie and with the guys from Wellington
Polytechnic and made public.

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So they had a development team of six
engineers and technicians

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and it's kind of wild,
but they built 50 working

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machines, I guess
prototypes in under eight months. 50.

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Wow. So in 1981,
they're just like ready to go

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in some of these 50 prototype IPS

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were already being trialed
in local schools.

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So then the Education Department
agreed to purchase a thousand computers

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over a thousand computers
a year, over five years for $10 million.

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HUF And I've also seen this described
as 16 poly ones

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for every school in the country.

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Yeah, that's got to me. That's a lot.

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Yeah.

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It's weird how it's becoming
more and more clear that school children

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were also just like literally lab rats
for testing computer machines.

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Really?

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Because this was like, that's
a lot of money to spend it in schools.

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Yeah.

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And just to suddenly have the government

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allow enable this amount of spending
in schools is kind of

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straight like unpredictable.

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There must be some kind of

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there must be something else
going on in the background, right.

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Like there must be more beneath the agenda
of just, just pure accessibility.

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Like it I mean, obviously

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helping the economy grow for the future,

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educating the young minds,
blah, blah, blah.

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But also having these models

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being trialed and tested in schools
is kind of a smart thing to do.

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Yeah, And I guess with this
the government could say that,

252
00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:54,373
yeah, it's like computer literacy stuff
so that

253
00:12:55,474 --> 00:12:57,743
New Zealand can, you know, have a,

254
00:12:58,644 --> 00:13:00,946
have a place in the future,

255
00:13:01,847 --> 00:13:04,483
but also that it was a homegrown thing.

256
00:13:04,483 --> 00:13:07,119
So it maybe was an easy sell to say,

257
00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,790
oh where we're doing this in New Zealand,

258
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:14,393
everything is made in New Zealand,
it's supporting New Zealand kids.

259
00:13:15,594 --> 00:13:15,928
Yeah.

260
00:13:15,928 --> 00:13:18,430
So at the time
I guess the government was was into it.

261
00:13:19,231 --> 00:13:21,400
I think as well to,

262
00:13:21,867 --> 00:13:24,103
you know, make a little prototype,

263
00:13:24,103 --> 00:13:28,140
go in to meet with the government
and like yeah, his $10 million. Mm.

264
00:13:28,774 --> 00:13:34,413
And also I think at this point it meant
that schools could only use public ones.

265
00:13:34,413 --> 00:13:39,118
The idea was like this was, this was
the school computer in New Zealand. Hmm.

266
00:13:39,118 --> 00:13:43,122
So let's take a little break
and look at the public one.

267
00:13:43,589 --> 00:13:49,295
So the first thing that it had
was color graphics, which is something

268
00:13:49,295 --> 00:13:54,200
that we've seen as an important component
for most of these educational computers.

269
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:55,868
Yeah, I mean, that's it,

270
00:13:55,868 --> 00:13:59,171
like you mentioned in the last
episode, is just a huge selling point.

271
00:13:59,171 --> 00:14:03,576
Well, for children, that's like
because all of these had teachers

272
00:14:04,310 --> 00:14:07,379
and experts kind of giving advice.

273
00:14:07,379 --> 00:14:10,082
And I think that was the first thing
for everyone.

274
00:14:10,082 --> 00:14:13,319
This is it's got to be in color
and something

275
00:14:13,853 --> 00:14:16,455
something written
in a comment on classic computers

276
00:14:16,455 --> 00:14:21,360
that all the NZ from JEM
standards who seem to be involved

277
00:14:21,961 --> 00:14:25,831
was at the screen used a teletext
display chip and had five layers

278
00:14:26,232 --> 00:14:30,469
text graphics, second text second
graphics and solid background color,

279
00:14:31,871 --> 00:14:33,973
and then
a comment from someone called Manukau

280
00:14:34,173 --> 00:14:38,577
on a on a different blog post
mentioned that even though these graphics

281
00:14:38,577 --> 00:14:44,316
were chunky teletext graphics, teletext
didn't arrive in New Zealand until 1984,

282
00:14:44,316 --> 00:14:48,888
so they seemed really fresh
and new to New Zealand users.

283
00:14:48,888 --> 00:14:51,991
I like seeing the teletext stuff
come in and, and

284
00:14:53,192 --> 00:14:57,329
you know, we did our first season
looking at quite a few teletext and video

285
00:14:57,329 --> 00:15:01,233
text networks and it's, it's
cool to see that sort of changeover period

286
00:15:01,734 --> 00:15:05,671
where we had
sort of teletext graphics and, and,

287
00:15:05,905 --> 00:15:10,442
and display chips and things can,
you can see how they're being used in

288
00:15:10,442 --> 00:15:15,681
computers which will, you know, eventually
get, get taken over by newer technology.

289
00:15:15,681 --> 00:15:18,751
But there's just this like one moment
where they thought like crazy touch.

290
00:15:18,751 --> 00:15:20,719
Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah.

291
00:15:20,719 --> 00:15:23,489
So the poly one had 64 kilobytes

292
00:15:23,489 --> 00:15:26,392
of RAM and an enhanced eight bit CPU.

293
00:15:26,892 --> 00:15:30,696
And then I think like we saw
in our last episode with the icon,

294
00:15:30,829 --> 00:15:35,167
correct me if I'm wrong,
but they could be networked by Daisy

295
00:15:35,167 --> 00:15:40,172
chaining them together
with like a floppy disk drive for storage

296
00:15:40,472 --> 00:15:43,208
and then you could add a printer on there
if you want.

297
00:15:44,043 --> 00:15:46,612
And I did see someone mention,

298
00:15:47,012 --> 00:15:50,616
but I don't know if this actually happened
that they were actually hoping

299
00:15:50,616 --> 00:15:51,650
for to create.

300
00:15:51,650 --> 00:15:54,386
So that's like a network
within a classroom or within a school.

301
00:15:55,287 --> 00:15:57,489
But they were kind of hoping
to do something

302
00:15:57,489 --> 00:16:00,459
with networking schools together as well.

303
00:16:00,492 --> 00:16:01,260
I'm not sure.

304
00:16:01,260 --> 00:16:05,230
I don't think they ever managed
to do that, but would have would have been

305
00:16:05,331 --> 00:16:05,931
would have been nice.

306
00:16:05,931 --> 00:16:09,234
Yeah, it would have made sense
If you're all using the same hardware

307
00:16:10,669 --> 00:16:11,971
and I know that you

308
00:16:11,971 --> 00:16:15,107
are probably dying to talk about it,
Let's talk about charisma.

309
00:16:15,741 --> 00:16:16,308
Oh, yeah.

310
00:16:16,308 --> 00:16:19,979
And this computer has charisma,
so I'm going to send you a link.

311
00:16:20,012 --> 00:16:20,779
Oh, like you.

312
00:16:20,779 --> 00:16:21,513
Here is the link.

313
00:16:21,513 --> 00:16:22,281
Oh, yeah.

314
00:16:22,281 --> 00:16:23,182
Thank you.

315
00:16:23,182 --> 00:16:25,184
To a picture of it.

316
00:16:25,384 --> 00:16:28,387
Yeah, that is it. Cut off.

317
00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:31,724
Oh, What do you think?

318
00:16:31,724 --> 00:16:37,129
It looks so eighties by it's form.

319
00:16:37,129 --> 00:16:41,834
It just looks like the kind
of materialization of eighties.

320
00:16:42,901 --> 00:16:45,871
I don't know eighties esthetic
like they started doing

321
00:16:45,871 --> 00:16:48,941
these kind of graphics for TV adverts and

322
00:16:51,010 --> 00:16:54,446
I don't know, it
just looks like the physical version of 80

323
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,250
special effects
where graphics are protruding

324
00:16:58,250 --> 00:17:02,354
from the distance to the foreground,
leaving graphic trail behind.

325
00:17:02,354 --> 00:17:04,823
You know what I'm talking about? Yes.

326
00:17:04,823 --> 00:17:09,461
And I don't know, it just really shows
the time of 3D graphic discovery.

327
00:17:09,461 --> 00:17:12,231
Like the camera's
always moving in and out of things.

328
00:17:12,698 --> 00:17:16,168
And this is what the form of this computer

329
00:17:16,168 --> 00:17:20,305
represents to me, like the discovery
of playing with space.

330
00:17:20,305 --> 00:17:24,843
It looks like that because a chunky boy,
it is a long computer.

331
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:29,048
It's really long
and it has these handles and then it does

332
00:17:29,048 --> 00:17:32,885
kind of go it gets smaller at the back.

333
00:17:32,885 --> 00:17:33,318
And I.

334
00:17:33,318 --> 00:17:34,753
I know what you mean. That it.

335
00:17:34,753 --> 00:17:37,823
Yeah. It kind of looks like a trail.

336
00:17:37,923 --> 00:17:38,290
Yeah.

337
00:17:38,290 --> 00:17:40,959
Sort of feigns perspective like one point

338
00:17:41,927 --> 00:17:42,561
thing.

339
00:17:42,628 --> 00:17:43,996
Yeah.

340
00:17:43,996 --> 00:17:48,567
And it's a bit similar to the icon in that
it says of all in one situation,

341
00:17:48,801 --> 00:17:51,036
but this, this guy's like really smooth.

342
00:17:51,270 --> 00:17:52,504
It's really big.

343
00:17:52,504 --> 00:17:53,605
It looks very simple.

344
00:17:53,605 --> 00:17:58,343
It has a fiberglass shell
with these sort of rounded corners

345
00:17:58,343 --> 00:18:02,081
that is very futuristic,
very syverson, very Star Trek.

346
00:18:03,148 --> 00:18:05,951
And then on the sides to make it
even chunkier,

347
00:18:06,151 --> 00:18:09,488
it has these long handles like rails,
almost

348
00:18:10,556 --> 00:18:12,257
along each side.

349
00:18:12,257 --> 00:18:15,294
And I guess the idea is that
it could be moved easily.

350
00:18:15,294 --> 00:18:17,463
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

351
00:18:17,463 --> 00:18:20,899
I mean, I was wondering, like,
why does it have such an elongated

352
00:18:20,899 --> 00:18:24,870
computer case or a computer chassis
and what I can do

353
00:18:25,137 --> 00:18:29,274
and I just, it looks fairly normal inside
so I don't, I safety.

354
00:18:29,274 --> 00:18:31,376
Yeah. I wonder it's all in there.

355
00:18:32,244 --> 00:18:34,113
Just a suitcase of a computer.

356
00:18:34,113 --> 00:18:36,115
It's amazing.

357
00:18:36,115 --> 00:18:40,152
Well it does have a full keyboard
so that takes up space at the front

358
00:18:40,853 --> 00:18:43,222
and it has a numeric

359
00:18:43,222 --> 00:18:47,226
pad and has arrows and some of those
keys are like bright colors

360
00:18:48,227 --> 00:18:49,795
and the computer itself

361
00:18:49,795 --> 00:18:53,699
came in six friggin colors
and it was the iMac.

362
00:18:53,966 --> 00:18:57,402
G3 Yeah, yeah.

363
00:18:57,402 --> 00:19:01,974
I was going to say, but it's a very G3 to
have it in all these colors.

364
00:19:01,974 --> 00:19:06,145
I can't find the list of colors,
but the photo I sent you is cream.

365
00:19:06,145 --> 00:19:09,882
And then there's one other image on line
and it's yellow.

366
00:19:10,382 --> 00:19:11,049
Nice.

367
00:19:11,049 --> 00:19:15,721
And I presume wear cream,
yellow, blue, red, green.

368
00:19:16,622 --> 00:19:17,256
Yeah.

369
00:19:17,256 --> 00:19:18,056
Something else.

370
00:19:18,056 --> 00:19:21,193
Well, I mean, it's got to have plasma
if it's going to be going into schools.

371
00:19:21,193 --> 00:19:23,195
Yeah. Different colors. Yeah.

372
00:19:24,263 --> 00:19:24,563
Yeah.

373
00:19:24,563 --> 00:19:28,300
It has very similar features also to IMAX.

374
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:28,967
Like,

375
00:19:29,902 --> 00:19:33,739
I don't know, the rounded corners,
beveled edges and it looks very similar.

376
00:19:34,006 --> 00:19:34,473
Yeah.

377
00:19:34,473 --> 00:19:37,075
And the fact that it has a high graphics
card as well,

378
00:19:37,709 --> 00:19:40,112
the fact that you could
look at the machine and kind of assume

379
00:19:40,112 --> 00:19:44,816
that things will just run
smoothly is very, very yeah, very iMac.

380
00:19:45,017 --> 00:19:49,421
So it was also relatively simple
to like set up.

381
00:19:49,621 --> 00:19:52,491
It had two cards, one for power
and then one

382
00:19:52,491 --> 00:19:55,561
to connect to other computers
for networking.

383
00:19:55,661 --> 00:19:58,130
So it was easy for teachers to set up.

384
00:19:58,730 --> 00:20:01,700
There was some mention online in comments
talking about

385
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,503
how it was actually kind of difficult
to maneuver.

386
00:20:04,770 --> 00:20:06,004
I saw someone

387
00:20:07,005 --> 00:20:09,808
saying that it was too big to fit through
doors easily.

388
00:20:10,209 --> 00:20:13,145
That's hilarious
because it's just got a massive bubble,

389
00:20:13,145 --> 00:20:15,714
but it's just too vague.

390
00:20:16,882 --> 00:20:18,083
So good.

391
00:20:18,083 --> 00:20:23,055
And that commenter Monica said
as the quote, It may have looked sexy,

392
00:20:23,055 --> 00:20:26,525
but the units did not break down
into easily handled modules.

393
00:20:26,758 --> 00:20:30,829
They needed to people to carry them
even between benches and a single teacher

394
00:20:30,829 --> 00:20:34,499
setting out could not usually move one
even between classrooms.

395
00:20:34,700 --> 00:20:37,703
I speak from experience
having put my back out with a 100

396
00:20:37,703 --> 00:20:40,472
meter lug to a carpark.

397
00:20:40,906 --> 00:20:45,577
It's just amazing to me
how when you think of a large computer,

398
00:20:45,577 --> 00:20:50,816
you think of it extruding outwards,
like from the sides, like the,

399
00:20:50,849 --> 00:20:53,785
you know, the size of the screen,
but you'd never think of it

400
00:20:53,819 --> 00:20:58,023
extending on that kind of z-axis
as if, like backwards or forwards.

401
00:20:58,857 --> 00:21:02,761
Yeah, it's just a whole new re-imagination
of computer hardware.

402
00:21:02,761 --> 00:21:04,096
It's fabulous.

403
00:21:04,096 --> 00:21:07,633
Like, you know, I don't want big screens,
I want big chassis

404
00:21:08,133 --> 00:21:12,804
when it comes to my computer.

405
00:21:12,804 --> 00:21:16,475
And so the other components of the poly
one was software.

406
00:21:16,475 --> 00:21:19,044
So we've talked about the hardware.
This is the software.

407
00:21:19,044 --> 00:21:20,545
I think that

408
00:21:20,545 --> 00:21:24,650
what all of these educational computers
have shown us is that before

409
00:21:24,650 --> 00:21:27,853
there was sort of a designated way
that software existed,

410
00:21:28,086 --> 00:21:31,156
there was so much room for creativity
and and especially

411
00:21:31,156 --> 00:21:34,393
produced styles of software for the poly.

412
00:21:34,393 --> 00:21:38,196
One poly quote
worked with someone named Kevin Hurley

413
00:21:38,196 --> 00:21:42,367
at the Education Department
to produce software and course material.

414
00:21:42,801 --> 00:21:46,471
This is a quote from a blog called Kiwi
Nuggets.

415
00:21:47,072 --> 00:21:49,741
Excellent. Yes, excellent name.

416
00:21:49,741 --> 00:21:53,812
60 teachers worked through the 1982
81 summer holiday

417
00:21:53,812 --> 00:21:57,115
to right course content into shells
created in the software.

418
00:21:57,582 --> 00:22:00,786
Polycarp presented their product
as a reliable, robust

419
00:22:00,986 --> 00:22:05,590
network teacher and student friendly
closed system, specifically designed to

420
00:22:05,590 --> 00:22:10,262
deliver computer assisted learning across
curricula, as well as computer awareness.

421
00:22:10,262 --> 00:22:13,832
Computer studies
and support for school administration.

422
00:22:14,399 --> 00:22:19,271
So these shows were software
that individual teachers

423
00:22:19,271 --> 00:22:22,674
could then like fill in
with their specific content or curriculum.

424
00:22:22,874 --> 00:22:25,977
So it made it really easy to individualize

425
00:22:26,812 --> 00:22:30,315
the software for each classroom and for
each set of students and for each teacher.

426
00:22:31,383 --> 00:22:34,586
While COVID era teaching could never.

427
00:22:35,354 --> 00:22:38,690
I wonder how different that is
to the kind of lesson

428
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:43,295
where idea
that the icon promised with the hope.

429
00:22:43,295 --> 00:22:44,730
That sounds very.

430
00:22:44,730 --> 00:22:47,766
Yeah, but this sounds like very efficient
and very

431
00:22:48,033 --> 00:22:50,135
yeah this doesn't sound hypertext,

432
00:22:50,936 --> 00:22:53,705
but it does sound useful.

433
00:22:54,473 --> 00:22:54,873
Yeah.

434
00:22:54,873 --> 00:22:58,110
And like, sharable and kind of modular.

435
00:22:58,210 --> 00:23:00,011
Yeah.

436
00:23:00,011 --> 00:23:02,647
And it was interesting
because it seemed to be a thing

437
00:23:02,881 --> 00:23:05,784
that they wanted it to be a really stable,

438
00:23:06,251 --> 00:23:09,621
functional, easily upgradable system

439
00:23:10,322 --> 00:23:12,724
from both the hardware
and the software perspective

440
00:23:12,991 --> 00:23:16,628
so that the schools could get these
computers and essentially not need to buy

441
00:23:16,628 --> 00:23:20,432
anything else for a really long
time, says a quote.

442
00:23:20,766 --> 00:23:24,903
Dr. Scott says it was designed
as industrial embedded technology,

443
00:23:25,137 --> 00:23:29,207
similar to the computers that run
everyday processes such as traffic lights,

444
00:23:29,408 --> 00:23:31,376
so that unlike other PCs,

445
00:23:31,376 --> 00:23:35,847
the poly one would keep working
without becoming obsolete. Hmm.

446
00:23:37,716 --> 00:23:38,216
And so

447
00:23:38,216 --> 00:23:42,120
while this is admirable and useful
and all things great, it

448
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,291
kind of ushered in the downfall
of the Polyone and poly colt

449
00:23:47,592 --> 00:23:50,128
because as you can imagine, a

450
00:23:50,128 --> 00:23:52,264
technology that does have become obsolete

451
00:23:52,264 --> 00:23:55,734
is not something that corporations
necessarily want in the world.

452
00:23:55,967 --> 00:24:00,172
Yeah, and there's a few things
that play in this part of the story,

453
00:24:00,172 --> 00:24:03,275
and it goes off on some tangents,
and some of those tangents are a bit dark.

454
00:24:03,275 --> 00:24:06,344
So I tried to

455
00:24:06,344 --> 00:24:09,214
I tried to put it in an order
that makes sense.

456
00:24:09,214 --> 00:24:13,385
So let's get into the topic section
of this podcast.

457
00:24:14,152 --> 00:24:19,591
So we're in New Zealand where in late 1981
and there is an election,

458
00:24:19,958 --> 00:24:23,161
the National Party,
which is a Conservative party

459
00:24:23,161 --> 00:24:29,334
and who had already been in power,
narrowly wins the election by one seat.

460
00:24:29,334 --> 00:24:34,372
So business interests have a little more,
are a lot more lobbying power

461
00:24:34,372 --> 00:24:37,476
over the government,
particularly about how the government

462
00:24:37,709 --> 00:24:39,845
shouldn't be involved in business.

463
00:24:40,612 --> 00:24:44,883
And it turns out surprise,
surprise us companies like Apple

464
00:24:44,883 --> 00:24:48,887
and IBM aren't super thrilled
that this government deal with Polycarp.

465
00:24:48,887 --> 00:24:53,391
It's essentially locking them out of the
New Zealand market, educational market.

466
00:24:54,092 --> 00:24:58,730
And also, like you said, the schools are
only allowed to polyone in them, right?

467
00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,467
Well, yeah, but also even if I'm wrong

468
00:25:02,467 --> 00:25:08,039
and they could buy other computers
like the poly ones for free.

469
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:08,406
Yeah.

470
00:25:10,075 --> 00:25:12,210
And also I guess

471
00:25:12,511 --> 00:25:17,115
Apple and IBM and things would be upset
not just for that market,

472
00:25:17,115 --> 00:25:21,920
but you know, when children are growing up
with a particular brand,

473
00:25:22,988 --> 00:25:27,959
they're more likely to continue
buying those products.

474
00:25:27,959 --> 00:25:29,261
And also, I guess

475
00:25:29,261 --> 00:25:33,031
maybe establishing a trend
that they didn't want to extend

476
00:25:33,031 --> 00:25:37,068
to other countries of home grown computers
and then not being able

477
00:25:37,068 --> 00:25:40,071
to get into those markets.

478
00:25:40,238 --> 00:25:43,108
So they lobby the New Zealand government

479
00:25:43,108 --> 00:25:47,212
and the government rescinds
its purchase agreement with Polycarp.

480
00:25:47,679 --> 00:25:52,050
So no thousand polygons each year
for five years.

481
00:25:52,651 --> 00:25:56,621
Of the ten yea of the $10 million,

482
00:25:56,621 --> 00:26:00,592
Polycarp only received $64,000.

483
00:26:00,992 --> 00:26:03,595
Wow. Which I think was probably the money

484
00:26:03,595 --> 00:26:06,798
that they used to make those 50.

485
00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:10,468
Yeah. Which is again,
not that much, no way.

486
00:26:10,468 --> 00:26:15,373
So like evil sounding,
but in reality good Polycarp is defeated

487
00:26:15,373 --> 00:26:19,678
by Keith sounding,
but in reality, evil Apple and IBM.

488
00:26:19,711 --> 00:26:21,580
Yeah, yeah. It's really sad.

489
00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:23,315
And this is like this is late 81.

490
00:26:23,315 --> 00:26:25,350
So I think they pitched it.

491
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:29,087
Oh, it was accepted in 1980, 82, 81.

492
00:26:29,087 --> 00:26:30,121
They, they built that. Yeah.

493
00:26:30,121 --> 00:26:33,925
The fact that the pitch was accepted
and the budget was made and then suddenly

494
00:26:33,925 --> 00:26:36,561
they're like, well, we've got the budget,
we're not going to give it to you.

495
00:26:37,362 --> 00:26:41,900
And a quote from that Kiwi Nuggets
article was Cabinet Minister Warren Cooper

496
00:26:41,900 --> 00:26:45,203
told Perth's Pearse Hartman that he and

497
00:26:45,203 --> 00:26:49,174
his colleagues, quote, could see no reason
why government

498
00:26:49,174 --> 00:26:52,844
should spend money
so the teachers could do even less work.

499
00:26:53,578 --> 00:26:56,648
Oh my God, that now that's evil.

500
00:26:56,648 --> 00:27:00,885
That's Warren Cooper is the antagonist
in this Desmond Disney movie.

501
00:27:01,152 --> 00:27:02,621
No, I don't want to get sued.

502
00:27:03,822 --> 00:27:06,024
Cooper Court Yeah, Allegedly.

503
00:27:06,658 --> 00:27:07,826
Allegedly.

504
00:27:07,826 --> 00:27:11,496
There was also in that blog post
a little chat about how perhaps there were

505
00:27:11,529 --> 00:27:14,766
some connections
between Ex-national party ministers

506
00:27:14,766 --> 00:27:18,269
or workers
who were stakeholders in the U.S.

507
00:27:18,269 --> 00:27:19,170
computer companies.

508
00:27:19,170 --> 00:27:21,673
So there's like some other stuff going on,
I think

509
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,010
I'm sure they've got their hands
in loads of pies.

510
00:27:26,611 --> 00:27:30,048
There's also another strange side
to this story,

511
00:27:30,081 --> 00:27:33,218
so that $10 million

512
00:27:33,218 --> 00:27:37,589
promised by the government
and I guess where it went instead.

513
00:27:37,956 --> 00:27:42,360
So I only saw this mentioned
one time in my research.

514
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:47,666
It was in the slides of a presentation
by Bob Doran and Andrew Trotman,

515
00:27:48,199 --> 00:27:50,702
and it said that the $10 million

516
00:27:50,702 --> 00:27:53,405
went towards funding the Springbok tour.

517
00:27:53,672 --> 00:27:56,474
Do you know about this? No.

518
00:27:57,075 --> 00:27:59,844
So speaking of sport,
I guess the Springbok,

519
00:28:00,412 --> 00:28:04,949
the South African Rugby Union team
and rugby is really big in New Zealand

520
00:28:05,183 --> 00:28:09,320
and there is, I think, a rivalry
between the Springbok and the All Blacks,

521
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,355
which is the New Zealand team.

522
00:28:11,322 --> 00:28:13,358
And there was a planned tour

523
00:28:13,358 --> 00:28:17,962
so the South African team would be coming
to New Zealand to play New Zealand.

524
00:28:18,630 --> 00:28:19,364
Mm hmm.

525
00:28:19,431 --> 00:28:24,436
But this is 1981,
which was during apartheid

526
00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:28,873
to shoot and other kind of
I don't want to swear on this either.

527
00:28:29,340 --> 00:28:32,343
Other countries had a sports boycott

528
00:28:32,343 --> 00:28:35,080
for South Africa,
but I guess not New Zealand.

529
00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:38,183
And the government was in favor
of this tour.

530
00:28:38,416 --> 00:28:39,451
They were saying something like,

531
00:28:39,451 --> 00:28:42,353
Oh, we shouldn't
mix politics and sport or something.

532
00:28:42,554 --> 00:28:43,922
Oh my God.

533
00:28:44,255 --> 00:28:47,892
But it was widely
opposed by New Zealanders.

534
00:28:47,892 --> 00:28:51,129
There was widespread protests
and it ended up being

535
00:28:51,730 --> 00:28:55,066
like the major issue of the 1981 election.

536
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,237
And the quote is more than 150,000

537
00:28:59,237 --> 00:29:03,108
people took part
in over 200 demonstrations in 28 centers,

538
00:29:03,341 --> 00:29:07,512
and 1500 were charged with offenses
stemming from these protests.

539
00:29:07,612 --> 00:29:09,414
So it's like a really big deal.

540
00:29:09,414 --> 00:29:10,115
Huge. Yeah.

541
00:29:10,115 --> 00:29:13,518
Yeah, I guess the government
went through the like they won.

542
00:29:14,119 --> 00:29:17,822
And then there's that money
to fund the Tories.

543
00:29:17,822 --> 00:29:20,191
So twisted I.

544
00:29:20,525 --> 00:29:24,996
Yeah Lucky was up and yeah, there was like
a whole international sports

545
00:29:25,396 --> 00:29:27,732
boycott like, like a global.

546
00:29:28,233 --> 00:29:30,034
But I guess. Yeah.

547
00:29:30,034 --> 00:29:34,672
Ri rerouted computer money said eff that.

548
00:29:34,939 --> 00:29:35,774
Yeah.

549
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,910
I mean I'd love to God it's so bad.

550
00:29:39,043 --> 00:29:41,179
But truly it was just a line.

551
00:29:41,179 --> 00:29:44,182
It was in I think it was in brackets
as in parentheses too.

552
00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:46,384
It was like used for the

553
00:29:46,384 --> 00:29:49,654
Springbok to a like okay, God.

554
00:29:50,722 --> 00:29:52,757
So let's go back to the poly.

555
00:29:52,757 --> 00:29:54,492
Oh yeah.

556
00:29:54,492 --> 00:29:59,164
The result of this was that
schools were allowed to purchase

557
00:29:59,164 --> 00:30:01,900
whatever computers
they wanted, essentially.

558
00:30:02,834 --> 00:30:05,670
So the whole idea had been that
with every school

559
00:30:05,670 --> 00:30:09,874
using the same computer and teachers
developing this software, the shows

560
00:30:10,875 --> 00:30:14,512
curriculum could be shared and developed
and there would be consistency

561
00:30:14,512 --> 00:30:17,782
in the hardware used and schools
wouldn't need to keep

562
00:30:17,782 --> 00:30:21,219
purchasing new expensive
hardware and software every few years.

563
00:30:21,219 --> 00:30:24,422
It was meant to be an investment,

564
00:30:24,422 --> 00:30:27,258
but with the government
reneging on the deal,

565
00:30:27,258 --> 00:30:32,363
the stream was essentially down the drain
and public hope was kind of on their own.

566
00:30:32,831 --> 00:30:36,334
And this is when the cost comes into play.

567
00:30:37,135 --> 00:30:40,238
The poly one was really,
really, really expensive

568
00:30:41,806 --> 00:30:43,908
and it wouldn't have been an issue

569
00:30:43,908 --> 00:30:45,877
when the government
was funding the program.

570
00:30:45,877 --> 00:30:49,380
But it became a really big problem
once schools could

571
00:30:50,281 --> 00:30:53,952
buy their own, like make their own choices
and the computers that they bought.

572
00:30:53,952 --> 00:30:58,122
So like once the schools
computer program was open to the market,

573
00:30:58,323 --> 00:31:03,061
ah, I guess like they didn't get the free
one from the, from the government.

574
00:31:03,061 --> 00:31:05,730
And so they had these,

575
00:31:05,730 --> 00:31:07,365
they had options.

576
00:31:07,365 --> 00:31:10,969
I found the cost of the poly from 1983.

577
00:31:11,002 --> 00:31:13,738
So in 1983 the cost of a poly one

578
00:31:14,072 --> 00:31:16,808
is $8,090

579
00:31:17,575 --> 00:31:21,346
and the cost of an apple
two for schools is 4800,

580
00:31:21,379 --> 00:31:24,148
which is already like a big difference.

581
00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:27,819
And then this just goes to show

582
00:31:28,186 --> 00:31:31,522
how seriously Apple was taking
this threat.

583
00:31:31,823 --> 00:31:35,593
Apple gives every New Zealand school
a free apple to

584
00:31:36,361 --> 00:31:38,663
and then it offers additional computers

585
00:31:38,663 --> 00:31:41,199
if they want them for 1200.

586
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:43,668
Oh, wow.

587
00:31:43,668 --> 00:31:45,003
Sorry.

588
00:31:45,003 --> 00:31:45,703
Yeah.

589
00:31:45,703 --> 00:31:49,474
Molycorp did have some luck in protesting
this and got customs

590
00:31:49,474 --> 00:31:52,577
to put an additional fee
on these computers,

591
00:31:52,577 --> 00:31:57,649
but still only brought up the price
to 20 $22,020.

592
00:31:58,082 --> 00:32:04,188
So it's 20 $20 versus $8,090
and you already have a free one time.

593
00:32:04,489 --> 00:32:06,724
Yeah. Yeah. There's no winning that.

594
00:32:07,158 --> 00:32:11,429
Another big blow to the project around
this time was a media smear

595
00:32:11,429 --> 00:32:15,600
campaign, and I don't know who started it,
but it definitely existed.

596
00:32:17,468 --> 00:32:19,737
So essentially when

597
00:32:19,938 --> 00:32:22,173
when you, Scott and Paul Bryant
at Wellington

598
00:32:22,173 --> 00:32:26,744
Polytechnic started the project,
they made a prototype out of like off

599
00:32:26,744 --> 00:32:30,415
shelf components,
which is I guess what they showed

600
00:32:30,415 --> 00:32:33,017
to the government
to get the deal, to make the WiFi.

601
00:32:34,085 --> 00:32:37,922
And they gave it a, they had a name,
the name was poly wog,

602
00:32:37,922 --> 00:32:40,925
which is another name for a tadpole

603
00:32:40,925 --> 00:32:43,761
or the love of a frog or a toad,

604
00:32:44,996 --> 00:32:48,599
but unfortunately sounds very similar
to a racist term

605
00:32:48,599 --> 00:32:51,035
that is very dated and no longer in use.

606
00:32:52,670 --> 00:32:55,540
And the media was sort of saying
that it had a racist

607
00:32:55,540 --> 00:32:59,844
name, which, you know, it sounds similar

608
00:32:59,978 --> 00:33:04,115
to it's one letter off this racist slur.

609
00:33:04,649 --> 00:33:04,882
Yeah.

610
00:33:04,882 --> 00:33:07,485
So the media like why you've
why is the government funding

611
00:33:07,652 --> 00:33:10,688
why are taxpayers money going

612
00:33:11,456 --> 00:33:14,125
towards a conflict as it's like racist

613
00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:16,995
so the schools

614
00:33:16,995 --> 00:33:20,365
weren't super inclined
to purchase the poly one.

615
00:33:20,832 --> 00:33:23,768
There's a lot of weird
like racist stuff in this.

616
00:33:24,435 --> 00:33:27,271
So yeah if I be this era.

617
00:33:27,705 --> 00:33:29,941
Yeah, sounds very.

618
00:33:29,941 --> 00:33:34,545
But you know, it's called the poly
because it's poly for poly

619
00:33:34,645 --> 00:33:36,647
they were trying to find a
that's like a normal word.

620
00:33:36,647 --> 00:33:40,351
They were trying to find a word
that used poly from polytechnic.

621
00:33:40,518 --> 00:33:40,818
Yeah.

622
00:33:40,818 --> 00:33:46,591
And I guess they saw this word
and it means the tadpole

623
00:33:47,291 --> 00:33:49,560
which is good for students

624
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,296
like children and growing up.

625
00:33:53,064 --> 00:33:55,433
Right. Like being hatched.

626
00:33:55,433 --> 00:33:59,070
They just maybe shouldn't have used
it, shouldn't have done it.

627
00:33:59,303 --> 00:34:02,673
They changed
it was to poly one, two, poly one.

628
00:34:03,007 --> 00:34:04,642
Oh right, right, right, right.

629
00:34:04,642 --> 00:34:06,577
You know,
I guess they were trying to be cute.

630
00:34:06,577 --> 00:34:10,148
We had the micro bee in Australia
so like, oh, it's like a tadpole.

631
00:34:10,848 --> 00:34:13,384
But um, but they, you know, they

632
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,387
weren't very Todd Poly.

633
00:34:16,387 --> 00:34:17,321
I know.

634
00:34:17,321 --> 00:34:20,425
Look, it was a bad choice.

635
00:34:20,425 --> 00:34:23,494
They've said that they were pretty racist
in articles.

636
00:34:23,761 --> 00:34:26,164
I mean, alongside all the, like apartheid.

637
00:34:26,631 --> 00:34:26,964
Yeah.

638
00:34:26,998 --> 00:34:28,866
Conversation it was, it was.

639
00:34:28,866 --> 00:34:31,402
I can see how it was fun.

640
00:34:31,402 --> 00:34:36,607
There would be more of Yeah,
that would be more of a focus on that.

641
00:34:36,841 --> 00:34:37,308
Yeah.

642
00:34:37,742 --> 00:34:41,412
And I'm glad that that wasn't
the name of this to say

643
00:34:42,146 --> 00:34:44,582
it was kind of the death knell

644
00:34:45,216 --> 00:34:47,085
for the poly one.

645
00:34:47,585 --> 00:34:50,655
And at this point,
most of the original poly team had left,

646
00:34:50,755 --> 00:34:55,393
leaving the progeny software company
to take the reins of the project.

647
00:34:55,393 --> 00:35:00,932
And while they did sell some to schools
with the Apple twos and IBM clones

648
00:35:00,932 --> 00:35:06,237
taking over the education market,
prettiness signed a deal with Guess who?

649
00:35:06,737 --> 00:35:08,005
The Australian Army

650
00:35:10,608 --> 00:35:11,742
Gray.

651
00:35:12,276 --> 00:35:15,012
And so that would
lead to the creation of the poly too.

652
00:35:15,413 --> 00:35:19,083
And I guess that the army had like
the muscles to carry the computers around

653
00:35:19,717 --> 00:35:22,887
and then they expanded into China
through a deal

654
00:35:22,887 --> 00:35:26,791
with a Chinese mining company, which would
lead to the creation of the policy

655
00:35:27,024 --> 00:35:30,795
for which Padini apparently developed
the world's first graphics processor

656
00:35:30,795 --> 00:35:32,630
for Chinese characters.

657
00:35:32,630 --> 00:35:33,998
Oh wow.

658
00:35:34,365 --> 00:35:37,201
However, the Chinese do ended up

659
00:35:37,201 --> 00:35:40,605
falling through because it was 1989.

660
00:35:40,605 --> 00:35:45,977
You know what happened in 1989
and know the Tiananmen Square protests.

661
00:35:46,110 --> 00:35:48,946
Yeah, it fell through in the eighties.

662
00:35:49,147 --> 00:35:51,949
Yes, sure. Time. Yeah, I did.

663
00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:58,122
Every every step of this second half
of this research, I just was like, Oh, no.

664
00:35:58,122 --> 00:35:58,923
Okay.

665
00:36:02,293 --> 00:36:02,760
So I think

666
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:06,063
Polycarp was so trying to continue
in some way, you know, like late eighties.

667
00:36:06,063 --> 00:36:09,634
Yeah, but it was too late,
you know, by this point,

668
00:36:10,201 --> 00:36:14,138
the, the big, the big corporations
have kind of settled into the market and

669
00:36:15,540 --> 00:36:16,674
both the

670
00:36:16,674 --> 00:36:20,511
I think they were there was plans
but then both the development

671
00:36:20,511 --> 00:36:24,582
Finance Corporation from the government
and progeny computers became insolvent.

672
00:36:24,749 --> 00:36:26,717
So then Poly Corp.

673
00:36:26,717 --> 00:36:30,354
closed 1990 as a consequence.

674
00:36:30,354 --> 00:36:31,622
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

675
00:36:31,622 --> 00:36:35,393
It's interesting
to see the progression here

676
00:36:35,393 --> 00:36:38,629
and how it was later,
how the computer was later

677
00:36:38,629 --> 00:36:40,765
used in industries
like all its different models.

678
00:36:40,765 --> 00:36:43,801
Because, you know, we talked about this

679
00:36:43,801 --> 00:36:45,870
the other day
reflecting on our pre-Internet

680
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:50,341
net network session
where online networks do not just come

681
00:36:50,341 --> 00:36:55,413
from the kind of classic narrative of them
being routed in the military and defense

682
00:36:55,947 --> 00:37:00,585
advanced research projects, which we know
is the story of the US World World

683
00:37:00,685 --> 00:37:01,652
Wide Web.

684
00:37:01,652 --> 00:37:05,456
But in fact you can kind of
go further back than that and discover

685
00:37:05,456 --> 00:37:08,626
these untold stories of socialist
or accessibility

686
00:37:08,626 --> 00:37:11,662
projects like Cyber Sin and OJ. Yes,

687
00:37:13,164 --> 00:37:13,464
and I

688
00:37:13,464 --> 00:37:16,901
guess you could say the same
for the evolution of the poly ones

689
00:37:17,268 --> 00:37:21,005
where it's from 1 to 2 to see, like,

690
00:37:21,305 --> 00:37:25,142
I don't think young humanitarian Neill
Scott would have predicted,

691
00:37:25,243 --> 00:37:29,313
you know, that he'd be making the machines
for the Australian Army

692
00:37:31,249 --> 00:37:33,451
but it's yeah, it's,

693
00:37:33,451 --> 00:37:38,522
it's it's good that we're like uncovering
the story of poly one

694
00:37:38,522 --> 00:37:42,560
and these kind of like the true intentions
of the, the initiation of it

695
00:37:43,094 --> 00:37:46,297
rather than the fact that the later
just that

696
00:37:46,297 --> 00:37:50,101
the fact that the later models
were used in in

697
00:37:51,002 --> 00:37:53,104
all these other projects.

698
00:37:53,104 --> 00:37:55,172
Yeah. I mean

699
00:37:55,473 --> 00:37:59,410
it's, it's been really nice to see

700
00:38:00,911 --> 00:38:02,413
physically how much teachers

701
00:38:02,413 --> 00:38:04,715
were involved
in a lot of these projects and,

702
00:38:06,183 --> 00:38:10,788
you know, bringing in experts
and trying to develop specific

703
00:38:11,789 --> 00:38:14,025
software and hardware for

704
00:38:14,025 --> 00:38:16,894
like that countries children

705
00:38:18,296 --> 00:38:21,198
and it,
you know, there's some nationalistic

706
00:38:21,799 --> 00:38:24,669
sort of parts of all of this as well.

707
00:38:24,702 --> 00:38:30,241
But yeah to look at the individuals
and and thinking about these teachers

708
00:38:30,241 --> 00:38:34,045
they're just like excited about computers
and into learning to code

709
00:38:34,045 --> 00:38:37,048
so they can teach better and

710
00:38:37,048 --> 00:38:39,517
you know be able to engage students more.

711
00:38:39,517 --> 00:38:42,086
And I don't know it's it's

712
00:38:42,653 --> 00:38:45,990
it's nice it's just sad that
every single time it crashes and burns.

713
00:38:46,524 --> 00:38:47,058
Yeah.

714
00:38:47,058 --> 00:38:49,327
And it's also really telling that that

715
00:38:50,461 --> 00:38:52,630
you know, the quote
that you had from Warren

716
00:38:52,630 --> 00:38:55,132
Cooper, you know, where he's like

717
00:38:56,167 --> 00:38:58,936
could see no reason
why government should spend money

718
00:38:58,936 --> 00:39:01,172
so that teachers could do even less work.

719
00:39:01,172 --> 00:39:05,009
Like the fact that this was
this is said and this was published

720
00:39:05,409 --> 00:39:09,847
shows that this was really
this could have been like a revolutionary

721
00:39:09,847 --> 00:39:14,885
kind of technology for for making lives
easier for teachers or to kind of

722
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:17,488
have a positive stance

723
00:39:17,488 --> 00:39:21,359
on automation
is always very difficult to achieve.

724
00:39:21,359 --> 00:39:25,062
But yeah, the fact that this was like
a big point of a debate

725
00:39:25,863 --> 00:39:28,065
is I think, quite telling of, of,

726
00:39:28,065 --> 00:39:31,469
of where this could have gone
and how how much potential it had.

727
00:39:31,769 --> 00:39:36,340
Yeah, there was I think I saw Neil Scott
talking in an article

728
00:39:36,340 --> 00:39:39,176
about how New Zealand,
the new Zealand government just

729
00:39:40,344 --> 00:39:42,279
kind of missed

730
00:39:42,279 --> 00:39:45,750
a really big opportunity both financially

731
00:39:46,450 --> 00:39:49,220
in terms of the software
that they were developing,

732
00:39:50,688 --> 00:39:52,656
but then also

733
00:39:52,656 --> 00:39:55,726
kind of just long term thinking about

734
00:39:57,094 --> 00:40:00,664
education in New Zealand
and that it could have been

735
00:40:00,664 --> 00:40:05,136
something really great and instead
ended up in something that New Zealand,

736
00:40:05,136 --> 00:40:08,773
you know, could control for themselves
but ended up being this of U.S.

737
00:40:08,773 --> 00:40:09,673
corporate thing.

738
00:40:09,673 --> 00:40:13,544
There's a there's an article from 2006
about Neil Scott,

739
00:40:13,544 --> 00:40:17,815
which is where a lot of the Neil
Scott stuff comes from.

740
00:40:17,815 --> 00:40:20,751
And there's a quote quoting the article

741
00:40:21,118 --> 00:40:26,690
now, 25 years after the Polyone schools
have the same problems with computers.

742
00:40:26,690 --> 00:40:29,960
They're paying too much for hardware
and software that's too complicated

743
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:33,664
for the teachers to use properly
and getting more complex each year.

744
00:40:33,664 --> 00:40:34,732
And then a quote from Dr.

745
00:40:34,732 --> 00:40:38,869
Scott Obsolescence is the theme
for running the computer industry.

746
00:40:39,069 --> 00:40:41,806
That's how the computer industry
makes money out of schools.

747
00:40:42,006 --> 00:40:44,341
The education system is a cash cow.

748
00:40:44,542 --> 00:40:48,012
Most of the problems we addressed with
the Polyone are still there.

749
00:40:49,079 --> 00:40:49,780
Hell yeah.

750
00:40:49,780 --> 00:40:52,049
Preaching to the crowd.

751
00:40:52,583 --> 00:40:54,785
He's not wrong. This is so true.

752
00:40:55,052 --> 00:40:57,321
It's funny because it's still happening
today.

753
00:40:57,321 --> 00:40:58,789
It wasn't just happening in the eighties.

754
00:40:58,789 --> 00:41:04,528
Like it reminds me of this meme
I saw the other day about

755
00:41:05,663 --> 00:41:08,199
the internet and it's it

756
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,001
kind of goes through the,

757
00:41:12,269 --> 00:41:14,972
I guess, the obsolescence
of the Internet as well

758
00:41:14,972 --> 00:41:18,409
and how we're sort of like
how we've gone backwards.

759
00:41:18,409 --> 00:41:23,280
The more it's kind of been used
as a marketing tool, the less it's it's

760
00:41:23,914 --> 00:41:27,952
retained, It's kind of designed.

761
00:41:27,952 --> 00:41:29,386
But yeah, the me

762
00:41:29,787 --> 00:41:33,891
the meme goes like Reddit is committing
Sudoku.

763
00:41:33,891 --> 00:41:37,027
Musk is turning Twitter into the new gab.

764
00:41:37,027 --> 00:41:38,229
I don't know what that is. I don't know.

765
00:41:38,229 --> 00:41:40,998
Instagram is an aging millennial,

766
00:41:41,298 --> 00:41:44,134
desperately
clinging to what's left of their youth.

767
00:41:44,134 --> 00:41:45,769
Facebook is a nursing home.

768
00:41:45,769 --> 00:41:47,872
YouTube is a clickbait farm.

769
00:41:47,872 --> 00:41:51,041
Tik Tok is a CCP propaganda outlet.

770
00:41:51,342 --> 00:41:53,344
Data collection Honeypot

771
00:41:54,245 --> 00:41:56,347
New media in quotes.

772
00:41:56,347 --> 00:42:00,518
Companies like Gawker,
Vice, BuzzFeed have been absorbed

773
00:42:00,518 --> 00:42:03,320
back into the old corporate media
ecosystem.

774
00:42:03,587 --> 00:42:05,456
Google, Wikipedia, etc.

775
00:42:05,456 --> 00:42:08,192
are getting flooded with bot
generated beats

776
00:42:08,192 --> 00:42:11,729
after faster than any one can keep up
with.

777
00:42:12,229 --> 00:42:16,033
Zoomers are too dumb to figure out
where WordPress blogs with RSS feeds

778
00:42:16,200 --> 00:42:17,935
the public internet is over.

779
00:42:17,935 --> 00:42:20,437
Hope you all had fun. Oh god.

780
00:42:21,672 --> 00:42:22,773
I mean,

781
00:42:22,773 --> 00:42:25,576
you said this
episode was going to be dark, so I'm just.

782
00:42:25,643 --> 00:42:28,579
Yeah, I'm
just running along with a theme here.

783
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,317
I mean, also something interesting to you
and that I found

784
00:42:33,817 --> 00:42:36,420
was another comment by a maduka

785
00:42:36,420 --> 00:42:41,292
that said since this holy one reflection
began, I've had quite an involvement

786
00:42:41,292 --> 00:42:44,628
with the OPC One Laptop Per Child,
XO Laptop,

787
00:42:45,095 --> 00:42:50,167
its rise Evangelical hype
and now apparent fall during 26,009

788
00:42:50,167 --> 00:42:54,305
era has been very similar
to the poorly ones 81 to 84 heyday.

789
00:42:54,838 --> 00:42:57,374
In spite of neither
machines succeeding as such.

790
00:42:57,374 --> 00:43:01,612
Both, of course, was responsible
for new tech trends educationally.

791
00:43:01,612 --> 00:43:06,850
In the old case the netbook explosion
this person knows about as your computers.

792
00:43:06,850 --> 00:43:07,952
Yeah, I mean it's true.

793
00:43:07,952 --> 00:43:13,023
I although I criticized them in my episode
a little bit, they obviously were ahead

794
00:43:13,023 --> 00:43:17,828
of the netbooks for sure
so got to give them credit for that.

795
00:43:18,662 --> 00:43:21,332
And the the polyone

796
00:43:22,032 --> 00:43:26,270
was ahead of the G3.

797
00:43:26,270 --> 00:43:28,105
G3 Yeah, definitely

798
00:43:29,673 --> 00:43:30,941
her. Yeah.

799
00:43:30,941 --> 00:43:32,543
Look, it got dark at the end.

800
00:43:32,543 --> 00:43:33,978
I'm sorry. I'm ending out.

801
00:43:33,978 --> 00:43:36,113
No, it's good.

802
00:43:36,113 --> 00:43:38,515
Sees it on that note,

803
00:43:38,749 --> 00:43:41,785
but I guess it just, you know,
it goes to show how much computers

804
00:43:41,785 --> 00:43:46,390
have always been integrated
into kind of questions of politics

805
00:43:46,390 --> 00:43:49,727
and yeah, and society
like it's a huge, huge

806
00:43:50,594 --> 00:43:53,030
discussion topic of debate

807
00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:57,401
for for society like it's like an object
that people can point to

808
00:43:57,401 --> 00:44:00,270
and kind of analyze And yeah, this was
it was great.

809
00:44:00,638 --> 00:44:02,706
I thought
I think this was a really good ending.

810
00:44:02,906 --> 00:44:05,542
I think the really good ending to the
to the seeds it

811
00:44:06,010 --> 00:44:08,078
I like that it's a little melancholic.

812
00:44:08,078 --> 00:44:10,280
I think that's a good thing.

813
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:14,785
So there is a poly preservation projects.

814
00:44:14,985 --> 00:44:17,087
If you want to know more. Oh great.

815
00:44:17,087 --> 00:44:18,188
Andrew Trotman

816
00:44:19,423 --> 00:44:20,057
And we'll put a

817
00:44:20,057 --> 00:44:23,727
link in the show notes
alongside the research links, but

818
00:44:24,628 --> 00:44:27,231
they have an emulator

819
00:44:27,231 --> 00:44:30,300
and links to a lot of articles

820
00:44:30,300 --> 00:44:35,239
and even some PDFs
of like training manuals and things.

821
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,342
I had a little fun rifling through them.

822
00:44:38,342 --> 00:44:40,944
I might put some of my selected

823
00:44:41,512 --> 00:44:44,815
favorite favorite graphics Instagram

824
00:44:46,617 --> 00:44:47,818
and yeah, so

825
00:44:47,818 --> 00:44:50,421
if you want to know more,
that's the place to go.

826
00:44:50,921 --> 00:44:55,292
You know, it's the end of our season
and I'm sad,

827
00:44:55,292 --> 00:44:59,797
but I'm excited for the next and I think
the next season that we're going to tackle

828
00:44:59,830 --> 00:45:04,201
is on mobile
phones, on cell phones, right?

829
00:45:04,201 --> 00:45:07,171
We decided
that was a listener suggestion. Mm.

830
00:45:07,404 --> 00:45:11,542
And I saw a bunch of weird ones
at the museum, so we're excited.

831
00:45:11,542 --> 00:45:12,376
Oh, cool.

832
00:45:12,376 --> 00:45:13,610
That's not looking into that.

833
00:45:13,610 --> 00:45:16,580
But we're going to take
a little summer break and I think

834
00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,851
when we come back,
we also might change up the structure

835
00:45:20,851 --> 00:45:24,888
a little bit and maybe
start doing some interviews and get some

836
00:45:25,222 --> 00:45:29,259
researchers and computer tech history

837
00:45:29,259 --> 00:45:32,362
people on to have some chats as well.

838
00:45:32,362 --> 00:45:34,531
So yeah, I'm excited for that.

839
00:45:35,733 --> 00:45:38,535
Thank you so much for listening
along with us.

840
00:45:38,869 --> 00:45:44,475
If you enjoy it and you got this far,
please leave a review

841
00:45:44,475 --> 00:45:48,746
and some stars
in your podcast app of choice.

842
00:45:49,246 --> 00:45:51,248
Very grateful for that.

843
00:45:51,248 --> 00:45:55,919
And follow us on Instagram and on Twitter
and we have a website.

844
00:45:55,919 --> 00:45:59,223
What is it, Ana,
our friend, The computer.

845
00:45:59,223 --> 00:46:01,792
Computer, Yeah.

846
00:46:01,792 --> 00:46:03,927
And I hope you all have
like a really wonderful

847
00:46:03,927 --> 00:46:06,697
summer or winter,
depending on your hemisphere.

848
00:46:07,765 --> 00:46:10,167
Yeah, Yeah.

849
00:46:10,167 --> 00:46:12,970
Thank you so much. Yeah.

850
00:46:12,970 --> 00:46:15,639
I can't wait for what's coming next.

851
00:46:15,639 --> 00:46:17,040
Yeah, just really excited.

852
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,008
I've been doing a lot.

853
00:46:18,008 --> 00:46:20,711
A lot. A lot of research,
and I'm going to be on.

854
00:46:20,711 --> 00:46:23,180
I'm going to be going on holiday

855
00:46:23,180 --> 00:46:24,948
in a few days for like two weeks.

856
00:46:24,948 --> 00:46:27,184
I'll be reading
up on all of that stuff and

857
00:46:28,285 --> 00:46:29,520
just, yeah, nerding

858
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,222
out on the beach,
you got to have a balance.

859
00:46:32,589 --> 00:46:34,291
I have a balance I am for.

860
00:46:34,291 --> 00:46:39,196
Yeah, it must be netting out in my.

861
00:46:39,196 --> 00:46:41,465
That's good too.

862
00:46:41,565 --> 00:46:44,001
Yeah. Thank, thank you so much.

863
00:46:44,001 --> 00:46:46,770
I can't wait for the next one and hope
everyone has

864
00:46:46,770 --> 00:46:50,574
a fabulous, luscious, delicious summer
or winter.

865
00:46:50,607 --> 00:46:53,710
Delicious, luscious winter with true.

866
00:46:54,211 --> 00:46:56,280
All right, thanks, everyone. Bye.

867
00:46:56,313 --> 00:47:10,327
Thank you. Bye.